How Larian Studios Is Improving Turn Based Combat

Talking about some of the problems that come with turn based combat and how Larian Studios is aiming to improve it.

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#BG3 #Larian #baldursgate3 #gaming #Divinity #larianstudios

[quipildor]

I prefer turn-based-combat because it allows me to relax and think carefully about what’s happening on screen and what my next move should be, but I agree that it can be boring and that’s why I have a more action-focused game on standby whenever I need to discharge energy after a long day.

The swarm mechanic is a good idea to speed up turns and make it more dynamic.

Funny thing, this is basically how my group handles initiative too. When we face a boss accompanied by a couple strong enemies and a mob of trash, our dm controls the mob as a single block. It’s easier for him and less tedious for us.

[thomasace]

Swarm AI is generally how I run normal Tabletop D&D

Combat takes long enough, so as a DM anything to cut that time down is beneficial for everyone!

[dumplingshakes]

I really fell in love with turn based on pathfinder WOTR on my second or third run. I learned so much more about my classes and companions by using different spells that take micromanagement. I’m hooked now

[Marcos-tksf]

I trust Larian's work, I have followed the company's work since the first DOS and it is remarkable that they are always evolving, not to mention that they give the impression that they are really gamers who develop games and care about useful feedback from the community . This update made me especially happy because of the translation of the game in pt-br, my native language.

[TheLabecki]

In response to the "slow" nature of turn-based combat, you just have to have fewer, but more meaningful battles. I would rather have 25 interesting combat encounters than 200 mostly mindless combat encounters.

[verrezen]

In the late eighties Pool of Radiance, there was a fight with orcs that was such a pain. All the oodles of orcs acted one after another. Most could only sidestep ons square, which they did. Then they moved back. Rinse repeat. 30 orcs with 9 square movement each and 5 seconds between every step they took. Hell. You save loaded until your wizard went first and could cull the horde with a fireball. It cut the turn down from 45 minutes to a mere 10.

[hammermandan]

The funny thing is, when the original Baldurs Gate came out, I remember a lot of people disliking it BECAUSE it was real-time-with-pause, and not turn-based like the tabletop. And now with Baldurs gate 3, the complaints have been reversed.

Kinda Ironic, isn't it?

[andrewhanna]

in XCOM 2: The War of the Chosen expansion, a new enemy called "the lost" gets introduced. It is a swarm type enemy that can easily have 30 models or more in play at the same time. While not all 30 will act simultaneously, groups of 10 of them at a time will. This has the same effect of what you're talking about here. I love Larian and Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2, but I don't think its fair to say that that other studios would be "replicating" the swarm AI in Baldur's Gate 3, when the system has existed since at least 2017. Still very much looking forward to B3 nonetheless :)

[thorinhannahs]

I have seen my DM use the "swarm AI" in our D&D campaign. It really does speed things up to use one save roll for the swarm or one attack roll for the swarm. Nice to hear about saving seconds per turn through animations which is very lean manufacturing and about the swarm AI. Thanks for the vid.

[multi-mason]

Simultaneous turn based combat needs more love. It's generally only done in a small handful of strategy and tactics game, and its a relatively unexplored system with so much room for innovation that could, with thoughtful implementation, be very suited for RPGs, potentially adding tremendous immersion, dynamics, and realism.

[Jigalagg]

Quality of life improvements like these are such a refreshing and needed change for us older video game players. I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciated being able to speed up combat in Dragon Quest 11.

[paStLife]

Owlcat's implementation of combat is my favourite. Switching between RTwP and TB, by pressing a button, anytime, even mid combat is phenomenal. Plus you can speed up the movement of whoever takes the turn - huge time saver.

[hexen]

Swarm AI has a very big issue which is, you run the risk of majorly screwing over a player if all the swarm acts together, especially if they get to act first.

[nokronis]

I loved having a toggle in Pathfinder. RTP was nice for all of the vanilla rinse and repeat fights, and Turn Based was nice for big boss fights!

[palchristianandersen]

I think the dialogue system in BG3 is going to end up being the star of the show to be honest. Larian is putting in a ton of effort into making it feel like the tabletop experience and it really shows. My youtube feed is inundated with clips of people making all sorts of dialogue decisions with different dice rolls just to see all the outcomes.

[Spyger]

What a coincidence!
MCDM recently put out "minion" rules for 5e D&D, and I just tested them out. They resemble this Swarm AI in that they allow many lesser units to move or attack simultaneously, and cut down on processing time in other ways as well.

[BenTenpenny]

Another aspect of their turn based approach that I really enjoy is how stuff is actually happening within the combat rounds that is interesting and might dramatically change the state of the battlefield. The environmental effects in D:OS I and II are a good example for that because not only do you have to manage your characters but also the surfaces on the battlefield as well as the surrounding objects and potential cover spots/high grounds.

[Runeforged]

Finally! Some real evolution! In the 3 decades I’ve been a gamer I haven’t seen turn based combat change at all so seeing Larian tackle the inherent flaws of the system is so exciting to me!

[Caliboyjosh]

I think Gears of War tactics, of all games, did something very similar and it was a game changer for cannon fodder enemies and keeping the flow really nice. I feel it will soon be a new standard for all turn based games going forward now.

[ScotRotum]

Diablo 1 started out as turn based during dev, then someone said "what if we ran through these action points in real time?"

Also Arcanum (from the fallout Devs) was an incredible early game with turn based or real time with pause combat you could switch over at any time.