I put a 48v battery in a 36v ebike - This is what happened

I put a 48v battery in a 36v ebike - This is what happened

what happens if you change the battery of an electric bike?

I took the 48 volt battery from the Engwe EP-2 Pro and put it into the Ado A20F. Did it work? Did it make it faster? Lets find out.

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[ozzie]

I generally explain it this way. I'm disregarding the unknowns of the controller for now. If you change your battery to a larger voltage battery, such as swapping a 48V to a 52V, it's like putting a bigger engine in your car, or adding a cam etc. You'll get a little more power (torque). If you swap to a larger amp/hr battery, such as swapping to a 20ah battery from a 13ah battery, it's like adding a bigger gas tank to you car. Watt hours is how to measure a battery pack's energy capacity. Multiply the voltage by the amp hours of the pack. A 48V, 13ah battery pack has 624 watt hours (48 X 13 = 624). Each mile you travel will cost you between 20-25 watt hours. Therefore a 624 watt hour pack should get you around 25 miles without any pedal assist.
Watt hours determine the range of your bike, depending on your weight, the bike's weight, how and where you ride. The range can vary. Generally bigger is better, but it gets exponentially more expensive. FYI, on one of my eBikes I had a 48V x 13ah battery. I never tested the range with that battery, but I usually went from 5 bars on my battery meter to 4 bars after 25 kms (using pedal assist). I believe my range might be around 65-70 kms. I bought a 48V x 20ah battery. Now I go from 5 bars on the meter to 4 bars after 42 kms. Yesterday I went 132 kms and I was down to 1 bar on the meter. I'm pretty sure I can get at least 140 kms on this 20ah battery. So...bigger is better, but more expensive. Your choice.

[faithwilson]

Hi there, what you did is called Overvolting. It’s quite a common practice.

Modern brushless motors don’t have a fixed wattage. The controller creates and limits the wattage of the motor.

If you just connected the battery directly to the brushless motor it would just draw the maximum available current and spin as fast as possible until it over heated and failed, or until the battery exploded.

The recommended wattage for the motor is normally based on how much heat the motor can withstand before it starts to degrade. Generally speaking you don’t want the motor getting over 80c.

Only overvolting by 12v is usually ok heat wise though, if worried just monitor the heat of the motor with a laser thermometer to be safe.

The motors wattage is just the volts x amps (or amps x volts lol) and that’s limited by the controller. Generally speaking though more voltage equals a higher top speed and more amperage equals more torque and faster acceleration.

That’s why overvolting by 12v only affected your top speed and not your acceleration. To improve the acceleration you’d need to increase the amperage of the controller by buying a different one or performing a shunt style modification to the controller.

You could have a 500w motor controller programed with higher amperage then voltage and it would have lower top speed but higher torque and acceleration, or with higher voltage than amperage for not as much acceleration or torque but a higher top speed and both would still be 500w.

In your case overvolting the 500w motor by 12v turns it into 750w (roughly) motor, as long as the controller is rated
to allow the full 12v extra.

To be honest though, I think your controller is still limiting the volts a little bit as well though or you’d probably get an even slightly higher top speed than you did. That’s also probably why the company said it may burn out the controller faster because most controllers have fixed physical limitations.

Usually (but not always, especially with the really cheap stuff) the rated wattage is the nominal power and not peak power so a 750w motor could be drawing as much as 1000ish watts when under maximum load or on a steep hill.

Hopefully this is helpful to someone.

[paul-Cellit-boston]

I changed a 36 volt battery in the nakto pony ebike to a 48 volt; the bike went from top speed of about 20 mph, to 32 mph. Big difference on my bike. Paul from Boston, Mass., USA.

[mrnitin]

I built a 48v 12.5 AH, 1200 Watt motor, 20 inch wheels, Top speed 34 MPH, Range (full throttle) 22 miles.
The formula:
More volts = more speed
More current (amps) = more torque
More capacity (amp-hours) = more range.

[e-VRC]

WE DID IT AGAIN, LOOKED AT THE CONTROLLER AND TESTED ACCELERATION and also compared it with the 750w Engwe EP-2 Pro

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[chrisliddiard]

There are two factors, the controller and the motor. The controller will only allow so much current through based on the Moffats. If you know what you are doing you can mod them to draw more current. You were fortunate in having a dual voltage controller which you could switch in the settings, in most cases you would have to get a new controller. The other factor is the motor, where the higher voltage may result in more speed but it wont improve torque. So hill climbs wont improve by that much, but speeds on the flat, or going down hill should improve. So whilst you can increase the voltage to improve the speed of the motor, you would do better with a motor actually built for the higher voltages as they should also have improved torque.

[simonwhittaker]

just finished my ebike build, mid mounted 48v 1000 watt motor, did a test run just to make sure the breaks and everything worked i got in just a short run 45 km top speed with me using all the gears on the bike, ,

[MrPirfree]

I think you are seeing an effect of not only the voltage, but also the amps that the battery pack can put out plus the overall increased capacity of the pack. Ah X V = Wh. Therefore, the one pack is capable of 374.4 Watt Hours, and the other is 614.4 Watt Hours. I would suspect that not only is the cells in the 36V pack lesser in quantity, it's possibly lower quality as well; and this is an area where most assemblers can make the MOST money, and that's in the battery pack itself. Many consider all battery packs as "equals", but reality is that batteries are an IMPORTANT consideration. While many might equivocate the amp hour rating of the battery pack as the equivalent of a fuel tank, it's far more than that. A 48 V pack is a 12 cells in series, with the amps coming from a number of cells in parallel as well, something like 12S5P ( 60 x 18650 batteries) ; and the 36V pack is 10 cells in series, again, with the amps coming from a number of cells in parallel as well, and I suspect a lesser number here - like 10S4P ( 48 x 18650 batteries ) . Generally speaking, while the voltage comes from the series connections, your overall amp output comes from the cells that are in parallel- and more cells of the same capacity - in parallel, tends to equate to more available power available from that particular pack. A 5P pack is going to output more current sustained easier than a 4P pack.. That definitely can affect performance.. Far more complicated than a tank of gas, eh ? Also far more important than most realize too.
Some of the newer packs support newer batteries, where many older packs will use 18650's, some newer ones might be using, say, 21700's. 21700's work similarly- but the cell counts should be far less as less cells in parallel would be needed. One thing I didn't mention earlier, because it's sort of confusing, is that a 48V pack technically could have the same number of cells in it as a 36V pack by using lower capacity 18650's in the same pack, wired differently- a cheaper alternative. And if made in China, I sort of expect "INFLATED" numbers..

Another area where pack sizing comes into play is the lifetime of the pack. If I use 9 to 10 amp hours on a daily basis, for my daily ride, a 10.4 amp hour pack should work, right ? Yes, but- it will shorten the battery packs life considerably because I'm using by fully discharging it.. A 15 amp hour or 20 amp hour pack will have a happier, longer life .. Simply put, a larger battery pack works less hard, and will last longer.

No, the manufacturers aren't going to advertise how they cut corners- they'll advertise price as budget minded individuals see, more than any other spec, price. Manufacturers will instead advertise an improved model with a better battery pack at a premium. Even if the motor or other components are the same, this is where manufacturers will "boast" about the capabilities of this model, etc..
Another aspect often not thought about is - for the same wattage output, a motor ran at 48V is simply going to draw less amps than the same setup at 36V.
is it worth upgrading your pack ? If your pack is still good, not likely, but perhaps. Reality is, it should have been one of the things considered while purchasing. IF the pack is starting to fail, or has failed, and you were going to buy another pack - well, that's a no-brainer..
As others have suggested, it'd be wise to check out, with a temp gun, how warm the controllers and motors get during use- at both 36V and at 48V and see if the temperature is "safe" .. That said, you probably should also check how warm the battery is as well ..





Like someone else mentioned in the comments, swapping batteries is sort of like swapping your old engine out for a better engine; reality is that any electric vehicle is comprised of many key components, like the wiring, the battery pack, the working voltage, the peak amps, sustained amps & the overall capacity of the battery, the motor itself and the controller. Limit ANY ONE of these, and you limit the rest of the subsystems.

[TheSixthSLoT]

Playing with fire bro... quite possibly literally.

[jcreedy]

Your motor will be rated to do so many revolutions per minute, for every volt you give it (This is known as KV Rating). So adding a higher voltage pack will increase the spin speed of your motor (more speed). In your case, your controller lacks the current (amps) to push it up to higher speeds. Hence you are getting 22+ mph down hill but lower speeds on flat or uphill sections. I shunt modded my controller so it had better up hill pulling power, I.E it provided more amps to the motor. Obviously there are other factors involved, like voltage sag that can effect top speed, for example if your battery is really cold or just has poor performance battery cells then the voltage will sag down when applying throttle, and you will get less spin speed as motors will spin slower the less volts you give it. Find someone who can work a soldering iron and get them to put solder about half way across the shunt, it will give a lot more zip, but try and keep the controller cool as it will generate more heat!

[JohnnysCafe_]

I see a lot of lovely houses, that looks like a nice quiet area to live.

[billadmond]

The 48V battery installed in the 36V bike might not work to its full potential but it would interesting to compare two batteries, 36V and 48V same Amperage/hour, in a 36V bike and see the max range.

[Acranthani]

Would i be able to use a 24 volt motor with a 48 volt battery? Tia

[GarrattHamster]

Hmm. Just be careful. I would always check the controller out first if it could take that 48v. But really with that battery in. It will take out for more rang and speed. But what I always check out first is the NM of toque of the motor. For hill climbs as the area I am is quite hilly. Then of course the batter AH for the distances I go for.

[tinkeringsolderbro]

The controller is programmed to calculate the rpm of the wheel from hall sensors withing the motor. The programmed cut off for the class of the bike comes from there. A second point is the max amp, the MOSFET inside can deliver, this is printed on the controller label.

[allenschmitz]

Ah! the voltage vs Amps fight! 'may I have this dance'.

[votefornormality]

So many aspects that would prevent the higher voltage from outperforming. The motor gears limit top speed in top gear. Your Controller limits the top speed of the throttle. Your controller limits the wattage or amperage. I do assume you are getting faster acceleration . That gives you the ability to take advantage of any slopes if you hit them at top speed vs a few miles below top speed due to the motor not reaching top speed yet.

[georgegates]

surprised you didn't fry the controller.

[jefhoks]

Range with the old 36v as well as the 48v version...
I have the 36v tested on range in #2 peddling assist mode.
Between 72-75 km distance, so that's pretty good.

[JK-zlvv]

Try keeping the voltage on 36v while putting in 48v to see if there is an increase in power and speed.