The Two Kingdom Paradigm & Escondido Theology

This is a lecture on two kingdom theology which discusses the Lutheran approach in relation to theologians at Westminster Seminary in Escondido, CA.

[frankopinions]

I felt this in the URCNA. This video is so helpful. I almost got to go to Escondido, but the Lord moved and changed many things. I feel like I wasted over a decade in this.

[UriesouBrito]

Jordan, this was superb! Thanks for your academic labors!

[tropicalpines]

Wow. This is my first time experiencing Jordan Cooper’s YouTube comments section. Yikes!

In regards to the video, this was a very helpful critique. I’ve had a hard time putting my thumb on it, but from the little I knew it did seem like R2K was taking some Lutheran terms and co-opting them to fit into a framework that neither Luther nor Calvin agreed with. I appreciated you and the man in the audience sharing that insight.

[adrielsanchez]

Appreciated your critique, Jordan, and your willingness to affirm some of the positives while raising your concerns. As an “R2K” guy (although I don’t like the label too much), I have a couple thoughts:

VanDrunen, Horton, et al. recognize that they’re working with the two kingdoms doctrine in a different historical context. At one point in describing Luther’s view, you acknowledged that it worked in the context of Christendom, and that a part of the doctrine was tied up with that cultural context. It seems to me that VanDrunen has acknowledged this with regard to his own view (he also is clear that it’s not to be confused with Luther’s 2k, because there are differences). IMO, these differences are necessitated in part by our context. We’re all seeking to apply the “magisterial” doctrine in a context that wasn’t the same as the magisterial reformers. VanDrunen is also willing to critique inconsistencies in the doctrine’s application on the basis of Scripture.

I sympathize with your concern regarding diaconal work and the church in society. I think we can see both sides of the issue here. If the church’s mandate is the Great Commission, central to which is the proclamation of the gospel, then charity severed from proclamation is a kind of Protestant liberalism. However, I personally believe that service in the community is a great bridge for gospel proclamation, and thus a way for us to engage in evangelism and adorn our preaching. The danger on the one hand is inactivity, and the danger on the other hand is confusing cultural work with the kingdom of God and work of the Great Commission. God bless you and your work.

[josiajones]

The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of Christ. We Christians should be getting involved in all forms of government, we should be teaching the nations and discipeling them as nations.

[lc-mschristian]

Thank you. Now I have a clearer understanding of the Reformed 2 kingdom teaching. God's peace be with you.

[jdahlxn]

What resources would you recommend for:
-The Lutheran approach to 2K
-The Lutheran understanding of the cultural mandate/probationary periods/etc in Eden

[NoKingButChrist]

Not a lutheran but I'm looking forward to listening Dr. Cooper work this out.

[jgeph.]

Kline made this distinction before VanDrunen and in my opinion influenced his thinking . Both of which I agree with for what it’s worth . Kline would call it cult and culture describing the two kingdoms .

[Narojo]

I agree with your critique of covenant seminaries teaching on Two kingdoms theology, at least from the perspective of the students. as a graduate from there, it was something that vexed me.

[richardtallach]

I think Reformed Theology usually makes a distinction between the Probation of the Tree (Covenant of Works) and the Cultural Mandate. Adam's "task" in the CoW was to avoid eating from the Tree. Then Man would build a godly civilisation on Earth by following the Creation/Cultural Mandate.

[drb]

I know this video is fairly old but could you do a rebuttal of Greg Boyd and his view on Romans 13? I believe he is a anabaptist and he holds to the view that Christians should not affiliate with the government at any level. What are you views on his View?

[Nnamwerd]

This seems (broadly speaking) quite appealing to me. The Church as an explicit in-group for Christians. The political/cultural/social role that the Western Church, in particular the conservative evangelical church, has played in culture in the last 40 years or so has discredited evangelical Protestantism in the eyes of many younger Christians. Thus the draw many have towards Eastern Orthodoxy. I don't agree with all of it, but I definitely see the appeal.

[pacman]

love the talk but I keep hearing a clicking sounds like a pen button. Very bothersome

[dmustakasjr]

So you kind of offhand mention that John Frame did an unfair critique of R2K theology but your conclusion at around 37:55 seems agree largely with JF, abit less on the scholarly side of the breakdown.

[DrMJS]

My PhD is in Learning Sciences. I started taking and ended up dropping the 500 level basic grad course in communication. In part because the discipline of Communication used some terms we in education use, to mean something different - not ENTIRELY different, but enough that it made me dizzy!

[ronniemurphy]

Beatitudes: Mat 5:3  Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.  Beatitudes: Luk 6:20  And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. ~~~~ If the Apostles did not know the difference then what did Peter Ruchman know?

[mitchellscott]

My understanding of Judaism vis a vie covenants is that the Mosaic Covenant is not a covenant with a individual person (Moses) rather all the people of Israel.

[johntobey]

Micheal Hirton was influenced by: Meredith Kline, David F.Wells and James Montgomery Boice and is friemds with Kevin De young and Rick Phillips.

[ThomasCranmer]

Should communism be the state religion?