The Controversy Surrounding The Michigan Relics Explained | The Michigan Relics | Real History

Leading experts present compelling arguments on both sides of the controversy about the divisive nature of the Michigan Relics, leaving the viewer to decide if the Michigan Relics are really history, or merely hoax.

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[Michigander]

As a native Michigander with Ojibwa heritage, I have deep roots and deeper love for the great lakes region. There is so much legitimate and fascinating history here to absorb and explore. It honestly upsets me that self indulged, depraved, and delusional scoundrels would dare muddy the waters just for 15 minutes of fame. Especially done in such a blatantly obvious format. It's despicable.

[paulbriggs]

All the discoveries in all the various locations and through the various years have one thing in common: James Scotford. The next big clue is that he was an artist. He painted signs and was a scenic artist. I myself have a fine arts degree and can tell you that it is a rare artist who does not have experience in a wider assortment of mediums than just one. Sculpture, metal working, pottery etc are very common skill sets that most artists have at least some experience with. This guy had the means, the motivation, and he and his sons were the sole source.

[SaltySpark]

I live down the road from the historical museum, used to be my favorite place to visit as a kid, the 50s and 60s era sections were always my favorite. Now my 12 year old loves going there every few months.

[andrewvoros]

I think that anyone who has seen hundreds of stone tools and thousands of artifacts, even if only in museums, would see these as certainly not having been buried for 1700 years. The writing, the incised lines, the lack of weathering and wear are absolutely not like actual artifacts, which are very rarely ever found in such pristine condition. Fun show and very well made.

[ElSenor]

I was fascinated with Dr. Richard Stamps methods and research on disproving the authenticity of the forged artifacts. Brilliant detective work.

[TstanDa-Man]

If that many relics were left behind where are all the regular day items like pots pans weapon’s or did they just leave items with hieroglyphics on them 🤦🏻‍♂️

[waynemyers]

I think the brightest red-light is the completeness of so many of the "objects" and the apparent lack (as far as I've been able to deduce) of accompanying evidence of habitations or ruins or rubble or trash and debris, nothing but pretty trinkets.

[wakeUPdummies]

"...hey, that's science. The door is always open."
The most honest, most mature, wisest perspective offered

[fractuss]

"I'm not an archaeologist, I'm a publisher", well that pretty much sums it up.

[mattf.]

I’m a Michigander and never heard of any of this, turns out for a very good reason, it’s a horrible attempt of a forgery.

[neurothoughtmachine]

the first problem tihe most of those findings where Soper and Scotford brought these 'respected' townspeople to randomly find these relics is that the constant coincidence "how they just happen to be where we searched", whereas in archeology search sites can get turned over for weeks and nmonths by large groups of trained professional with little or no fidings at all. The high freqency of these substantial and coincidential findings suggests that these pieces were buried weeks in advance, so that rain water would solidify the ground and cover the digging of a recently buried object.

the second problem is that many of these slate objects ought to be broken, cracked and so thoroughly worn by age that most of the inscriptions should not be legible.

[chetisanhart]

I'm from that immediate area of Montcalm County. The locals always knew that the relics were fakes. Only outsiders thought they MIGHT be real. Our Grandparents joked about the relics.

[carlmally]

There was a similar controversy in Davenport Iowa in 1877. A local minister, Jacob Gass, uncovered two slate tablets bearing Hebrew inscriptions from a burial mound. The Putnam Museum of Davenport was dragged into the controversy as he was on the board there. Several years later a couple of local guys confessed to the joke they were playing on Gass because he was so full of hot air about the Mound Builders being the Lost Tribes of Israel. It got out of hand when national media picked it up. The tablets are still in the Putnam Museum.

That kind of fakery happened quite a bit during that era. Apparently there were gullible people long before the internet and jokers and con artists to take advantage of them. P.T. Barnum inspired a lot of people.

[Icriedtoday]

The expert at the end is utterly wrong about no prehistoric smelters. Shame that he didn’t know this. Copper smelting was definitely going on prior to Columbus.

[AllyCat]

What's interesting about this, is that it has NOW become history, whether or not it was what it originally claimed. It is over 100 yrs old.

[price]

I was at the meeting when Wayne May presented with Richard Stamps present, lots of evidence of Michigan Relics discovered over 100 years before Scotford and Soper were born. Yet when Dr. Stamps spoke to the same group he never acknowledged the compelling evidence presented by Wayne May. As a Full Professor with nearly 100 refereed articles in the scientific literate (biology and geospatial sciences) I was blown away at how he obviously had no intention of acknowledging the much earlier findings of the Michigan Relics. Most of his presentation was focused on Scotford and Soper calling them frauds, when the findings of many of the relics was obviously not a hoax. Many of the relics were found buried under the remains of Hopewell people. How did the hoaxers pull this one off. How come we find some relics in Southern Illinois. Did they ride a horse from Michigan to Southern Illinois just to plant some relics as a hoax? Come on folks, let's think logically.

[thefinalgrind]

I'm down in the east end of Monroe MI. Just south of the river and not far from the historic battlefields. I bought my house in 03& it was originally built in 1892. Ive found a lot of cool artifacts over the last two decades while renovating. Hell, i even thought i found gold inside some "black dirt" in the basement where the original foundation wall was caved in& replaced but all the surrounding dirt was left in the basement space. I have it saved somewhere but never tested it since it was just a few grains at that. I

I can go anywhere on my property and dig down 6" and find something. Most of the time it's broken glass, bones, old nails, glassware or ceramics, etc. From 6-12" down it's more of the same but sometimes you can find entire bottles still together or random pieces of metal. When i dug the 42" deep trench to run utilities out to my shop I found most of an old pot belly cast iron stove around 2ft or so deep. There's stuff scattered everywhere. And what is that stuff? Mostly garbage. Like legit garbage. Why? Because I'm guessing that over the last 130 ish years of homeowners, many of them threw their garbage directly on the ground or buried it when they felt like digging a hole or giving the kids a chore or punishment. I'm guessing the original builders just let their materials that went unused sit where they lay. Or tossed them to the side& the earth scooped them up in time. I've found a few dozen nails clumped together in spots. Like someone tossed a bag of them to the ground& said screw it. Or maybe they pulled them from old wood& tossed them in a pile for years. I'm guessing the people in the house tossed their food scraps out the windows for the chickens&pigs to pick off of& eventually they were stomped into the earth. In guessing a few of the homeowners were drunks& broke bottles around the yard. Add to that the trees in the yard& the lack of maintenence, it doesn't take but a few years for the earth to reclaim what was once on top.

Either way, 130yrs& it's nothing but garbage for 2-3ft which means that i can only imagine actual artifacts from the past being pressed into the harder clay soil that sits beneath the soft dirt or sitting on bedrock or anywhere that would maintain them in location with minimal activity above. Ive yet to find anything worth actual value but i fill up a 5gal bucket every year full of garbage. Lol.

Lastly, for the same man to "find" multiple artifacts in various he must be the luckiest person ever or the best ever OR just a lol. With that said, everyone enjoys a good dig. Just make sure you know where you're digging first and what may lay beneath. It's a simple phone call away to find utility lines

[fredleewoodsfourthsleepapn]

DOB 1960. My Dad and I collected many arrowheads in different areas of Central and Lower East Michigan. These are sacred to our family. Michigan is a place like no other on earth. Remember, it's ancient with Great Lakes that "raked" and carved millions of acres of land, rivers, lakes, streams and they made Michigan rich farmland and other resourceful soil that sustains humans and animals. Whales are now returning yo the Great Lakes as well. Lake Superior is the 2nd or 3rd deepest biggest freshwater lake in the world. I believe anything ancient could be found in these lands. The native American tribes thrived here. Michigan is very special. Visit, enjoy, love, bur take your garbage with you

[heavymetalredneck]

This is a story about how even intelligent people can be fooled by obvious fake items if they wish those items to be real, especially if it "proves" some oddball theory of theirs.

[datra]

As a professional Geologist, I wonder why none of the artifacts shown have any soil (iron, humus) staining or any carbonate deposits on them as usually occur on ancient artifacts. To me, many of the "tablets" look like old slate roofing shingles from the Martinsburg Formation in PA. I am not aware of similar slate in MI.