Edward Snowden Interview on Apple vs. FBI, Privacy, the NSA, and More

"There's a very real difference between allegiance to country–allegiance to people–than allegiance to state, which is what nationalism today is really more about," says Edward Snowden. On February 20, the whistleblowing cybersecurity expert addressed a wide range of questions during an in-depth interview with Reason's Nick Gillespie at Liberty Forum, a gathering of the Free State Project (FSP) in Manchester, New Hampshire.

FSP seeks to move 20,000 people over the next five years to New Hampshire, where they will secure "liberty in our lifetime" by affecting the political, economic, and cultural climate of the state. Over 1,900 members have already migrated to the state and their impact is already being felt. Among their achievements to date:

getting 15 of their brethren in the state House, challenging anti-ridehail laws, fighting in court for outre religious liberty, winning legal battles over taping cops, being mocked by Colbert for heroically paying off people's parking meters, hosting cool anything goes festivals for libertarians, nullifying pot juries, and inducing occasional pants-wetting absurd paranoia in local statists.

Snowden's cautionary tale about the the dangers of state surveillance wasn't lost on his audience of libertarians and anarchists who reside in the "Live Free or Die" state. He believes that technology has given rise to unprecedented freedom for individuals around the world—but he says so from an undisclosed location in authoritarian Russia.

And he reminds us that governments also have unprecedented potential to surveil their populations at a moment's notice, without anyone ever realizing what's happening.

"They know more about us than they ever have in the history of the United States," Snowden warns. "They're excusing themselves from accountability to us at the same time they're trying to exert greater power over us."

In the midst of a fiercely contested presidential race, Snowden remains steadfast in his distrust of partisan politics and declined to endorse any particular candidate or party, or even to label his beliefs. "I do see sort of a clear distinction between people who have a larger faith in liberties and rights than they do in states and institutions," he grants. "And this would be sort of the authoritarian/libertarian axis in the traditional sense. And I do think it’s clear that if you believe in the progressive liberal tradition, which is that people should have greater capability to act freely, to make their own choices, to enjoy a better and freer life over the progression of sort of human life, you’re going to be pushing away from that authoritarian axis at all times."

Snowden drews laughs when asked if he was eligible to vote via absentee ballot. "This is still a topic of...active research," he deadpans.

But he stresses that the U.S. government can win back trust and confidence through rigorous accountability to citizens and by living up to the ideals on which the country was founded. "We don’t want Russia or China or North Korea or Iran or France or Germany or Brazil or any other country in the world to hold us up as an example for why we should be narrowing the boundaries of liberty around the world instead of expanding them," says Snowden.

Runs about 50 minutes.

Produced by Todd Krainin, Meredith Bragg, and Nick Gillespie. Cameras by Bragg and Krainin.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

0:00 - Edward Snowden, welcome to New Hampshire. Meet the Free State Project.

0:53 - Apple vs. the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Why should strong encryption be legal?

5:02 - Is privacy dead? Should we just get over it?

10:48 - What would a legal and effective government surveillance program look like?

14:53 - Could we have stopped the slide into mass surveillance? Shouldn't we have seen it coming?

19:04 - How can government earn back the trust and confidence of the American people?

21:40 - What's wrong with our political parties?

24:27 - What are Snowden's political beliefs? Is he a libertarian?

26:27 - How did Snowden educate himself? Is he helped or hurt by his lack of formal education?

28:48 - Why did Snowden see bulk surveillance differently than his NSA co-workers?

33:03 - Was the NSA involved in gathering evidence against Ross Ulbricht?

35:39 - Will the government eventually give up fighting internet commerce? Or will they just change tactics?

37:32 - How can Snowden advocate freedom from a place like Russia?

41:00 - How should we teach children about the Internet?

43:43 - Under what conditions would Snowden return to the United States?

[KeinName]

I'm from europe. In my opinion he's a kind of hero and he deserves a lot of respect and support!
He is one of the good guys!

[datavortex]

Wow. Edward Snowden is the hero of our generation.

[galimirnund]

I really respect Edward Snowden. He stood up among a group of liars and cheaters and told the truth... thank you Edward....

[YesItsMeGuys]

this heroic young man is really brilliant .

[cedricerleward]

Edward Snowden is eloquent to THE MAX!

His language is precise and his thought patterns show brilliance, clarity and a thorough understanding of the principles of freedom and liberty which are the natural state of human beings.

He is a hero beyond all others before him.

He should be honored throughout the world for the truth he speaks
and for his actions to disclose it to humanity

[Tibetan-experience]

Nobel Peace Prize for Mr Edward Snowden. Like if you Support.

[Beretta]

"Getting the facts rights matters more than anything else."
Bam.
Thank you, Mr. Snowden.

[chopseee]

am i the only one thats thinking that this is the sort of person we need in government, these are the qualities that we should have in the white house not in asylum!

[henryl]

This is the guy who can make peace in the world, no dirty propaganda

[mickywes]

"The public is no longer partner to the government, but merely subject to it" 21:25

[UfoAlien]

I'm from europe. In my opinion he's a kind of hero and he deserves a lot of respect and support!
He is one of the good guys! HE SHOULD BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT

[pattyparker]

I definitely agree that Edward Snowden is one of the good guys. One of the very few. He is very smart and very brave. I sure wish he could be President... that's what we need for America to ever be what it was intended to be. It's even scary just writing this. Freedom of speech isn't what it's supposed to be. Snowden isn't a criminal. The criminals were exposed, but the ones with so much power.

[adamhouse]

Much thanks to Reason, The Free State Project, & the Liberty Forum for having the courage and insight to make this event possible and the video available to all \m/

[jabbermocky]

As an analytical thinker, communicator and recovering professional journalist, I can thoroughly appreciate Ed Snowden's take on the benefits of using pseudonyms when releasing potentially incendiary ideas to the greater population. Fairly sure we both know that no critical thinking goes unpunished in America these days. Mission 1: Stay safe!

[patrickalaggio]

Edward Snowden is a true American hero and his continued bravery gives wings to us all!

[BAMOFO]

like he said its not privacy just for Americans but for everyone abroad speaks volume . . .

[jacquelinex-]

I so admire Edward Snowden. I see him as a great statesman and visionary leader. He just has "IT".

[jedics]

His statement about accountability is how I have always felt about government and corporate entities, the day I realized they dont answer to the very laws they enforce on us was the day the whole system ceased to have any value to me, they dont serve the people so why would I serve them.

[daija]

Excellent interview... very insightful. Cheers!

[NiceCatsVEVO]

He's one of my heroes. I have enormous respect for Edward Snowden.