Leadership Roulette in the LDS Church

When one's eternal salvation hinges on the unique personality, biases, and leadership style of a local leader, for some this becomes a costly game of leadership roulette. Can the system be improved?

[kj]

After listening to you I have decided that I must be terribly naive. I am age 64 and have been active my whole life. I have lived in 3 different states in the USA, both branches and wards. All of my Bishops have been human and men. I believe they have done their very best. They are given an impossible task. And they do it. All are overworked and under paid. Some I have truly enjoyed, but some have been real dumb heads. But even the stupid ones have taught me something, if not tolerance. They are in that postion for their growth. It is up to me to do my best in my own realm of influence.

The bishop we have now is probably the worst one I have ever had. I told my friend that I will just have to keep my mouth closed for the next 5 years. But when I went into my temple recommend interview, the Spirit strongly confirmed to me that he carries the keys of his leadership calling. 14 short questions of yes, no answers, a 5 minute interview, and I walked out of that room with a new found faith and conviction that this is God's kingdom. We are a church of imperfect people and policies, but we are incredibly blessed to be a part of such a great organization. There is no other church like it on earth.

[Drew-fufc]

I was a branch president on my mission to branch of 12 active members. 0 training. I did my best but looking back I know there were some situations I didn’t handle correctly. It’s helped me give grace to other leaders I’ve had since then and before.

[patriciadumont]

I am a sincere individual who has studied the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. It's not fluff. It is scientifically based. People have different personalities, preferences, etc and they operate in daily life with these preferences without knowledge whatsoever. They are who they are. When any dispute in work, school, home, church I am able to understand each person's personality and come to expect how they will act or react. It really helps to understad Personality Type, The book Please Understand Me, I highly recommend. Misunderstandings usually come not from anger, malace, uneducation, bias but personality type. I roll with the leadership, appreciate their efforts and unless it really touches on my value system, I leave it alone. And I pray for them. Hope this helps. I think Connor has the personality type which does not take anything at face value. He wants to understad how, why, why not and this is why I can watch and litsen without worry for him or my testimony if we disagree. He is using his agency and expressing his presonality type in the best way he can.

[DesertPrimrose]

When I was 24 in the early 2000s, I went to my bishop to request a temple recommend so I could be endowed. The bishop told me, "We don't usually let girls go to the temple unless they are getting married or going on a mission. Girls usually get married within six months, anyway, so you should just wait." I tried two more times over the next year, and I also spoke to the stake president and was told the same thing. The RS president told me that as long as I was in that stake I wouldn't be allowed to go to the temple, and she was right! It shook my testimony. I'm still active in the gospel, but I didn't go to the temple until I was 30. I'm very glad that the general handbook is publicly available and easily accessible now. That bishop and stake president witheld the blessings of the temple from me for no justifiable reason, and I don't know if 21 years later that I've fully forgiven them 🤷‍♀️

[gschimbeck]

Being a bishop is the worst calling in the church Period! Anyone who seeks that calling, I would be suspicious of.

[pabloairth]

Interesting topic. I’m fortunate to have always had high quality bishops. During covid I stopped wearing a mask to church and I could tell some were unhappy, most didn’t care but still wore it and some told me I was doing the right thing. My bishop who is also a friend didnt care but one of the counselors did even that brother wasn’t going to let it stand in the way of me coming to church.

This hits at something that most of us who are very independently minded have noticed about the church: we’re way too safe, timid and nice. You’re weird if you don’t go along with popular narratives or purely cultural norms. This is an outgrowth of a faith that had to overcome so much to integrate into American society that what was lost was a lot of curiosity and independent thinking to knowing and following Gods spirit.

God can work through anyone which is why I think Porter Rockwell is such a legend in our history. But working through anyone means on the fringes there’s going to be problems.

[zebiraross]

The problem lies within the Church's definition of apostasy which is very broad. Here is the policy:

"As used here, apostasy refers to a member engaging in any of the following:
Repeatedly acting in clear and deliberate public opposition to the Church, its doctrine, its policies, or its leaders
Persisting in teaching as Church doctrine what is not Church doctrine after being corrected by the bishop or stake president"

I've had people use this policy language saying I was an apostate because I disagreed with President Nelson when he said the jab was safe and said it was a literal Godsend. However, disagreeing is not the same as opposition. Opposing is a verb meaning it's something you do. Having a disagreement or different opinion with a leader is not opposing them. There are leaders in the church that disagree with each other. When the quorum of the 12 disagree with each other are they in apostasy?

[Kopaka-epug]

I appreciate that you offer solutions instead of just problems

[truthbetold]

I have bishop who is humble and young! He is a veteran and doesn't hold the high power and pay jobs! But, he is the most real, understanding, and Christ center bishop that I ever have. He doesn't give flowery talks, but all centered on Christ when he talks. He also able to think for himself! I also have bishops and stake presidents who only care their friends who are in the same financial status. Some leaders think they have power over you! I also tell myself and my family that the leaders are imperfect human beings and just the tools to help us to get close to God. I don't have to listen to everything they said and think that i have to be strict obedient to whatever they say! After all, we don't have legal contracts with them and we don't work for them. They are not responsible for our own salvations!

[KellieHolt-sn]

Hey Connor, I used to be a dermatology cancer nurse. Please get your nose looked at. Even if you think it's just a sore. It looks fast growing and may be a squamous cell carcinoma. The horrible thing about the nose is the tissue doesn't move around alot and is harder to repair. Don't wait!

[WalterReade]

Yet, most would hate if every decision a bishop could possibly make was dictated centrally.

[McGuyveracity]

I'm a lot more forgiving of local leadership after having served in the bishopric of my ward. It is not an easy calling, and the members ought to be mindful of this before offering criticism.

[PeterBrownscouts]

I think leadership roulette is both a feature and a bug. It's good because it's not correlated. It's bad because sometimes you get a really bad apple. It's really good when you have someone that leans upon their Priesthood and access to the heavens instead of the handbook.

[mixedwar]

I really listened with this with enthusiasm and deep interest

[sarahowen]

You salvation isn’t dependent on a church leader.

[othersheep]

Well said. Unfortunately, from everything I’ve heard, the quorum of the 12 (15), don’t agree on most of these issues, some of them drastically. That is the root of the problem, so none of your ideas, no matter how charitable and compassionate can gain traction, let alone momentum. Your fairness and empathy is admirable and refreshing. I hope, at least, we can all love one another.

[mdcarson]

Eternal destination isn’t dependent on your church leader; but your church membership certainly can be. People should be clear on the distinction between the two very different things.

[PageTurnersbooktube]

Man wish I found you sooner. So much I've been going through are in line with what you believe. Thansk for what you to

[jeeperp]

It’s what happens under the two prevailing circumstances in the church: 1. Revelation is NOT a part of “calling” church leaders. 2. Leaders called operate under the false pretense that they were called because they know what’s what. The handbooks are for those less righteous and knowledgeable.

[kevinparkin]

Church Leadership Roulette is real, along with 1) To Which Parents You Are Born Roulette 2) In Which Century You Are Born Roulette 3) With Which Chromosomes You Are Born Roulette 4) Into Which Society You Are Born Roulette 5) Who Lives Next Door To You Roulette 6) Whether A Drunk Driver Kills You Roulette 7) And A Bunch More Risks Of Being Human Roulette.

On Thanksgiving Day in 1978, my Geneva Switzerland Mission President ordered a Mission Wide Fast - ostensibly to demonstrate to the Lord our "dedication" to The Work. On the same day, my friend's Paris France Mission Presdent ordered a Mission Wide Softball Game and Bar-b-que.