Milton Friedman CLASHES with Leftist Neil Kinnock in FIERCE debate (1980)

Milton Friedman vs socialist egalitarian politician Neil Kinnock
Battle of Ideologies - Fiery Debate on Freedom vs Equality of opportunity and of result

[svenhaheim]

The quality of dialogue in this is so vastly higher than what we usually see today in politics regardless of whos side one is on.

[rjw]

The fact that Kinnock went on to become a EU Commissioner says as much about the EU as it does him .

[vincentcooper]

Considering how Kinnock ended up a wealthy man "working" for the EU, a huge bureaucracy which taxes the workers and spends vast sums of that tax over-paying bureaucrats like Kinnock and giving them gold-plated pensions, you really do have to laugh. listening to him in this debate, Kinnock proves Friedmann right.

[Hibernicus]

At about 8:15 Prof. Friedman talks about the economic freedom of the 19th century, and how during this time, there was more charitable giving being done than ever before or since. Friedman makes two fact-based assertions: 1) 3/4 of the beds in British hospitals, in 1980 when this debate was held, were found in private hospitals that existed because of philanthropic sponsorship by wealthy individuals making private donations, and 2) this was a period when working people were becoming better off, their standard of living was rising, and the gap in income between rich and poor was shrinking. Kinnock tries to refute this starting at about the 11:00 mark. Listen carefully to his answer; it's gobbledygook. He starts saying "see what I was taught was that philanthropists, taught by people who were the victims of philanthropists, who employed them for six days of the week, and then victimized them for the other." He rambles on for a couple of minutes more, but he doesn't really _say_ anything. It's word salad. Prof. Friedman makes simple, straightforward, fact-based assertions that anyone could independently verify with a little basic research if they care to investigate for themselves. Kinnock responds with totally unsupported assertions about what he was taught, and how the poor really had it so bad in the 19th century, and collective financing has made all that better, and there is not _one_ single, solitary, independently verifiable factual assertion offered in support of _anything_ he says.

This shouldn't surprise anyone. One of the participants was a Nobel Prize-winning economist, and a scholar accustomed to doing research, citing supporting evidence, making logically sound arguments, etc., and the other was a slick politician, whose main talent was for demagoguing issues in order to gain political advantage.

[The-Rest-of-Us]

Wow, everything Milton Friedman said over 40 years ago is more relevant today than ever.

[stevehubler]

I doubt Kinnock ever created anything of value for anyone, anytime, .

[valiskuk]

Looks like the full version of this would be quite an interesting debate.

[Kyryyn_Lyyh]

The welfare state has only ever expanded.
There are multiple generations of families who have never worked a real job.
Currently we are seeing a crisis in skilled labour due to the talented people dropping out of society as there is no benefit.
Fantastic to review these arguments decades later, where we have our answers.

[LaminarSound]

Single income household here raising a family of 4, government taxed my bonus at 30%. The government is the gangster. Nobody else is stealing my hard earned cash.

Government has now given my tax dollars to lenders in repayment of student loans that i didn’t benefit from. Friedman is exactly spot on.

[davidgreenwood]

This was the guy who was anti eu till they offered him and his wife fantastic jobs

[mcc]

Great exchange, Friedman on fire and the great educator as always. And while Kinnock spoke well, his actions speak louder as he went on to become very wealthy as a politician and so proving Friedman’s concerns over A and B taxing C to give to D while much of that money staying with A and B. As they say there is nothing more permanent than a temporary government programme. But is there anything worse than decrying the position of the poor and lining your pockets in their name? That is the greatest crime of the socialist

[mr.jamesdavidrobert]

Hardcore, awesome discussion. Absolute gem of a video.

[samshare]

At the very end, Neil Kinnock, unknowingly, ends up arguing EXACTLY what Milton Friedman was saying...government is the problem, and therefore government action/control is the problem.
Oops.

[mikethomas]

Friedman won this battle but unfortunately Kinnock and his like won the war.

[royboakes]

Kinnock is a wonderful example of someone who as Milton Friedman said " Set out to do Good but ended up doing Well".

[NoosaHeads]

I thought that the discussion was civilised and dignified, up to the time when Kinnock referred to Freeman as part of a team of gangsters. This old chestnut of wickedly insulting your opponent in a debate is something the US Democrats would take on 40 years later. The moment Kinnck started with the ad hominem attacks, he completely lost my respect.

[keithwaller]

Kinnock with his gold plated pensions from the taxpayer for doing what exactly 🤷‍♀️

[CretvMG]

Milton is 1000x smarter than any of the people arguing against him.

[lesliefuller]

Kinnock has 2 talents. The ability to get people to vote for him and the ability to get rich from it.

[yellowstoic]

All you need to know is how do people walk with their feet. Is it from Socialism to Capitalism or Capitalism to Socialism?