NWC INS Lecture Series -- Lecture 2 'Who Lost the Vietnam War?'

The U.S. Naval War College is pleased to host the second lecture in this academic year's "Issues in National Security" lecture series.

Join Professor Sally Paine who will speak about " Who Lost the Vietnam War?".

From Professor Paine: The Vietnam War was an insurgency nested within a regional war nested within an overarching Cold War. Operationally North Vietnam defeated South Vietnam in the regional war. For the United States, however, Vietnam was a hot theater of the global Cold War that it ultimately won. The lecture explains how the Vietnam War contributed to this outcome by undermining the Sino-Soviet Alliance.

Sarah C. M. Paine is William S. Sims University Professor of History and Grand Strategy in the Strategy & Policy Department of the U.S. Naval War College. Nine years of research in Australia, China, Japan, Russia, and Taiwan form the basis for her publications: The Japanese Empire (Cambridge, 2017); Wars for Asia, 1911-1949 (Cambridge, 2012, Gelber prize longlist; Leopold Prize and PROSE award for European & World History), The Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895 (Cambridge, 2003), and Imperial Rivals: China, Russia, and Their Disputed Frontier (M. E. Sharpe, 1996, Jelavich prize). She has also written: Nation Building, State Building, and Economic Development (edited, M.E. Sharpe, 2010); Modern China: Continuity and Change 1644 to the Present, 2nd ed. (co-author with Bruce A. Elleman, Rowman & Littlefield, 2019); and five naval books: Naval Blockades and Seapower: Strategies and Counter-Strategies 1805-2005, Naval Coalition Warfare: From the Napoleonic War to Operation Iraqi Freedom, Naval Power and Expeditionary Warfare: Peripheral Campaigns and New Theaters of Naval Warfare, Commerce Raiding: Historical Case Studies, 1755-2009, and Navies and Soft Power: Historical Case Studies of Naval Power and the Nonuse of Military Force (all co-edited with Bruce A. Elleman, Routledge, 2006-11; Naval War College Press 2014-15). Most recently she co-edited with Andrea J. Dew and Marc A. Genest, From Quills to Tweets: How America Communicates about War and Revolution (Georgetown University Press, 2019). Her degrees include: B.A. Latin American Studies, Harvard University; M.I.A. Columbia University School for International and Public Affairs; certificates from both the East Asian and Russian Institutes; M.A. Russian, Middlebury College; and Ph.D. history, Columbia University.

The Family Discussion Group follows the formal lecture in order to provide information to the community on specific programs and services available here in Newport.

About the Lecture Series

ISSUES IN NATIONAL SECURITY (INS) LECTURES are designed to offer scholarly lectures to the spouses, partners, and significant others of our students; military/civilian employees assigned to the Naval War College and Naval Station Newport and its tenant activities, International Sponsors, Foundation members, and local-area retirees or active/reserve personnel.

[ChrisPierreBacon]

I could listen to Dr. Paine all day long.

[gianniformica]

Stumbled on her now I devour everything...
She's so great.

[MrVinni]

Dr. Paine is American excellence. She needs to be everywhere, explaining everything.

[pagarb]

This is he most brilliant, insightful and honest presentation on the strategy and tactics at the highest level of this war. She puts into a clear context the dynamics behind it all, she's not only brilliant but also very courageous in her comments and has no compunction about "saying it as it was". This is in sharp contrast to all the commentaries intended is justify an unjustifiable position by trying to put a "nice face" mask on a pretty rotten corpse.and pretend it was a noble lost cause, like the sacrifice the Spartans made at Thermopylae. This wasn't an existential threat to the West, it was a exercise in grand and not very honest politicizing.

[bboomermike]

I am writing this in my wife's living room in District 12 Saigon. I did 2 tours in Vietnam in the "Delta" area so I know some thing about the difference in Vietnam from 50+ years ago and now. It looks to me that communism failed on an economic level. It seems to me that the economy is much more capitalistic than communist. Not far from my wife's house is a new multi story building with a sign saying "California Fitness Center of Saigon. Saigon feels more like LA than Branson MO.

[seoulcycle]

This is the best explanation of how grand strategy versus operational warfare works that I have seen on YouTube.

[tsung]

I love how she casually tossed out a critical concept in Sun Tsu like this is something everyone should know.

[Toto-nomv]

Two comments:
First, Paine's central theme here is that it didn't really matter if we (US) won or lost militarily in Vietnam, we won if we weakened the USSR by causing problems in the Soviet-China alliance, and forcing the USSR to spend beyond their means. That is actually believeable because after the war we pretty much forgot about SE Asia, and the military defeat had very little effect geostrategically. But who formulated this cold and cynical strategy? Johnson wanted very much to win the war itself, and from what I have read his cabinet was also motivated by patriotism and idealism, and really started to have doubts when they realized the horrendous costs. Was it a Nixon/Kissinger thing?
Second, the main effect of the war for the US, to which the geostrategic planners seemed completely oblivious, was domestic and cultural in nature. It needlessly split the country and created an entire generation cynical of government, and I think that has greatly weakened our democracy. I grew up during the war, and it has taken me years of living abroad to truly appreciate the blessings of the American system.

[udeychowdhury]

I've read about Vietnam all my life , some of this stuff is new to me!! Great stuff

[bobk]

With brains like this around how do we wind up with presidential candidates like the ones we got?? Please.

[rudolphguarnacci]

Finally, a strictly political lecture on this war, the essential ingredient that wins (or loses) a war.

[BlakeMerriam]

Prof. Sally Paine is awesome. It's as if Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg had a war loving sibling.

[freddecker]

As much as I have heard about the Vietnam War in my lifetime, (I was born in 1960), this lecture provides much new information I wasn't previously aware of. Thank you!

[charliesmith]

Ah, memories! In 1965 I got ahold of an English translation of Gen. Giap's book "People's War, People's Army". I read it and learned of what Prof. Paine called "half court tennis". I realized that the U.S. was fighting a war it had made up in its head. General Giap was fighting the real war, and for that reason we were going to lose. West Point made the book mandatory reading in 1996, only a generation late.

[benwong]

Great emphasis on how not to win the hearts and minds of your desired allies. Unfortunately we seem to have ignored these lessons .

[obriets]

I really appreciated this. For my entire life I’ve been critical of LBJ’s piecemeal air strategy. I still am fundamentally, but at least I understand his logic.

[ashaide]

And here I thought I knew a lot about this conflict. Was i sorely mistaken.

Talk about 5D Chess.

Thank you so much.

[ronaldyarrosh]

Thank you, Professor. By accident, I found some of your various interviews and now YouTube is presenting more and more of your stuff to me. For a long time I have been saying what you have said about the Vietnam war, which is basically that it cannot be considered a loss for the United States because it has resulted in a unified state, with which we enjoy diplomatic and commercial relations. A state which got the attention of the Chinese by saying that they might actually offer us a naval base on their coast. The Chinese stopped bothering their fishermen . They know how to maneuver. The government of the Philippines might be able to learn from them. Thanks again.

[monumentofwonders]

I hated Johnson at the time, having been drafted not once but twice to go to Viet Nam, or go to jail. But in retrospect, Johnson's domestic policies dramatically improved life for millions and millions of Americans. Hearing Paine describe the large international strategic issues, and how complicated they were, I don't feel so judgmental. It also shows how reckless Nixon was, creating the conditions for a holocaust in Cambodia. National interests are so often contrary to human interests. No one that I've ever heard has such a grasp on these complexities. Paine is brilliant.

[Pete_Veee]

This lady (Dr. Paine) is amazing!! Her passion, knowledge and the ability to transfer that knowledge on key historical, political and economic actions that impact our world in such a wonderful way to the lay person. She explains it simply yet matter of factly where it makes sense! I could listen to her everyday. She’s simply brilliant.

It is my SINCERE HOPE that “people high up” listen to her assessments and heed her advice militarily… 🙏🏼🇺🇸