Deno 2 with Ryan Dahl

Show Notes

00:00 - Welcome to Syntax!
00:34 - What is Deno?
05:08 - Deno 2.0
07:49 - NPM compatibility
09:40 - What parts of Node aren't doable in Deno?
11:22 - Do we need a hard break from Require?
13:51 - Package management
16:25 - Security and performance benefits of Deno
20:57 - Thoughts on Bun and Node additions
26:25 - Ryan's favorite Deno projects
28:42 - Will we ever see a unified file system API?
31:49 - Typescript
36:12 - Jupyter Notebooks with Deno
39:11 - AI and WASM in JavaScript
42:01 - Deno 2.0 features and future
43:08 - Sick Picks & Shameless Plugs

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[Skylla]

I was not aware of deno jupyter.
I was just looking for something like that a week a go :D
2 minutes later, and it runs and works, sweet :D

[FrankHale]

This was such a good interview. I love Deno!

[ceralguy]

Always great to see Ryan Dahl and the evolution of Deno

[offroaders]

This was outstanding, so glad to hear all the things you covered here!

[kirillvoloshin]

loved my experience with deno! especially not having to browse stackoverflow for every error or config mismatch

[emilbonnek]

I didnt know Deno matches Bun performance, but that actually makes me a lot more excited about Deno.

[itsthesteve]

I gotta say after years of listening to the podcast, it's like meeting a blind date seeing y'all on video.

[JeffHykin]

Ryan nailed the part about notebooks. I do AI research (5th year PhD) everything is in python and Jupyter Notebooks are such a pain because of the external env. Matplotlib is trash and also the standard, and everything is unreliable. I already use deno for all my scripts, but sadly there's still a long way to go before machine learning in JS is practical. I love to see the progress though! I'll be the first on the ML-in-deno train as soon as its practical! (Aka pytorch)

[kinsondigital]

I have been using deno now for EVERYTHING js/ts for the past 2 or so years and I am in love with it. I will avoid node at all costs. But now with deno 2.0, avoiding node is that much easier. I think deno and JSR is the future for sure.

[tech-daddy]

Now we need a guide to make this work with Remix and recommendation of how to really handle the dependency jungle.

[eddie]

I know it's very easy to say, but it seems to me that, simplifying it a lot, for one Javascript runtime to surpass another, it has to go through guaranteeing backward compatibility and adding features that surpass the previous one, but starting from what there is. If you create a parallel project, even if it has objectively better functionalities, as happened with Deno at the beginning, I think it is more complicated to make the leap. The difficult thing is knowing when to make the cut to be backward compatible, but I think it has to be gradual based on what was there before. I think they have identified this well from the beginning in bun js and starting from what already existed, they try to build something that integrates it and surpasses it. I think it would be something similar to what happens with philosophical systems, for one to be more powerful than the other it has to be able to wrap it around and provide, let's say, more powerful explanations than the philosophical system that one wants to overcome or in the sciences when the theory of Enstein's relativity integrates Newton's theory of gravitation and provides a more powerful explanation. That is, bun js, if I'm not mistaken, wants to be able to run a large part of the node.js ecosystem within bun.js and once the entire node.js ecosystem is sufficiently wrapped in bun.js, overcome it with the objective advantages it provides. That is to say, the new runtime has to start from the present in progress to have more possibilities, with the difficulty that this entails. I don't understand programming languages ​​like Rust or Zig, but from what I understand, and from what Sumner said, he started the bun.js project with Rust and saw that it was more productive with Zig and decided to move to Zig. Additionally, Zig, if I understand correctly, makes it very easy to compile C and C++ code, which is what Node.js is written in. So I think, in part, it has more advantage over Deno and Rust.

[alikin]

Thank you for doing this, Ryan is … Thank you Ryan!

[andrewzuo]

"We're not working in Javascript because it's a beautiful language. We're working in it because it's very familiar." 😆

[SDAravind]

Im planning to using deno2 with svelte5 and sveltekit. What are your thoughts? Both are in RC

[nathantoups]

Amazing episode. Deno is so cool. 7 years already!?

[StingSting]

Why isn't deno supporting something like go channels for concurrency? Is it impossible to use v8 isolates or something else for this?

[sanderd]

The thing that irks me about typescript up to now, is that it's a script. It should be able to run without being compiled (or compile on the fly).

Deno does support running ts, but the browser definitely needs it soon.

[seanknowles]

Workspaces doesn't work at the moment when trying to deploy to Deno deploy. Very frustrating.

[siya.abc]

Before I use Deno, I'll try Go. That means I won't use Dental

[megamind]

Please we need monorepo support of deno with next, angular and other frameworks. Maybe it has support for nextjs if we run nextjs with deno. But still it will be a game changer.
I have always loved deno the dinosaur ❤.