BILL C-63 - Everything You Need to Know | Bruce Pardy & Konstantin Kisin | EP 442

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down in-person with Canadian lawyer Bruce Pardy and podcaster Konstantin Kisin. They discuss Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Bill C-63 (aka The Online Harms Act), what powers it gives to the government, what rights it strips from citizens, and why even Americans should be concerned.

Bruce Pardy is executive director of Rights Probe, a law and liberty think tank, and professor of law at Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, Canada. He is a lawyer, academic, columnist, and outspoken critic of the illiberal managerial state, fighting at the front lines of the culture war inside the law. Bruce writes for the National Post, Epoch Times, and the Brownstone Institute, among others, and serves as senior fellow at the Fraser Institute, the Macdonald-Laurier Institute, and the Frontier Centre for Public Policy. He has taught at law schools in Canada, the United States and New Zealand, practiced civil litigation in Toronto, and served as adjudicator and mediator on the Ontario Environmental Tribunal. The legal ground, Bruce has written, is shifting beneath our feet. The individual is losing to the collective. An ever-expanding bureaucracy regulates life from cradle to grave, including private behavior and speech, in the name of common good. The law has become discretionary, arbitrary, and unequal. The end of Western liberal civilization, as we have known it, is conceivable.

Konstantin Kisin is a Russian-British satirist, social commentator, and co-host of the TRIGGERnometry Youtube show. He is also the author of “An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West,” a Sunday Times bestseller. He has written for several publications, including Quillette, The Spectator, The Daily Telegraph, and Standpoint, on issues relating to tech censorship, woke culture, comedy, and other topics, but he currently publishes articles on his popular Substack. Kisin made headlines in 2018 when he refused to sign a "safe space contract" to perform comedy at a British college and again in 2023 when he participated in an Oxford Union debate on the motion of "This House Believes Woke Culture Has Gone Too Far." His speech at the debate received viral attention and has been seen by over 100 million people around the world.

This episode was recorded on April 14th, 2024

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- Chapters -

(0:00) Coming up
(0:35) Intro
(2:35) Starting with Bill C-16
(4:41) C-63 is “C-16 on steroids”
(8:19) Most people do not actually agree with free speech
(9:55) The devil in the details: what Bill C-63 actually says
(17:21) The UK has seen a similar rise against “harmful speech”
(19:19) Totalitarianism begins with the language of compassion
(22:21) You are allowed to cause people harm with your speech, this is why
(25:11) Tribunals are not courts, Bill C-63 empowers bureaucratic justice
(27:59) Rewriting of the law now guarantees equal outcome over equal treatment
(30:13) When the government is doing this, it means you no longer live in a free country
(35:04) What rights should we have? Where the Charter of Rights fails
(41:54) Non-crime hate incidents, the absurdity of overreach
(44:21) Intent and truth are no longer relevant
(48:05) Categories of hate speech restriction in Canada
(53:04) The weaponization of human rights
(1:00:39) You can be punished pre-crime if anyone demonstrates fear that you might commit one
(1:05:57) If a fact offends someone, Bill C-63 considers the fact harmful
(1:07:44) Why are there only a handful of people who seem concerned?
(1:12:54) Why constitutional lawyers are not speaking up
(1:15:10) Conservatives and Liberals are working together against the Woke, but disagree on the problem
(1:22:46) Debating the restriction of self-imposed harm, forced virtue is as bad as forced obedience
(1:31:57) Does freedom involve agency?
(1:35:16) This awful progressive idea has become mainstream
(1:38:20) Moral conviction should not become legal responsibility
(1:43:02) The dynamism between slave and tyrant
(1:45:43) The degenerate state, why laws replace self-regulation

[artistjuliadocherty]

“Hate speech is ugly, but people do in fact hate each other! And if they are not allowed to say so, well then their speech is not free.” STUNNING. ABSOLUTELY stunning. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[javiersds]

If I'm not mistaken, Bruce Pardy was one of the very few that supported Jordan Peterson from the very beginning when he opposed bill C-16. Good guy.

[fergieferg]

Imagine if Bruce Pardy and JP were your university profs. We are so lucky to have them on here for free

[zsomborczoma]

Hats off to Mr. Kisin. He sat there, listening intently and everytime he interjected, it added to the conversation.

[alexmeier]

Men need to speak up.

Risk is necessary for freedom.

[danielgilleland]

The genius of "limited government" is that we stop government from having powers that exceed their wisdom.

[farmerarmwrestling]

Konstantin is the man! One of the few British voices making sense right now and always raises the right issues

[mischa]

During my lunch in a Canadian restaurant I overheard three white teachers (one man and two women) talking about white privilege and "what has to be done about it". One woman did most of the talking, the other two agreed with everything. Honestly, I thought I get a heart attack. Those stupid people are teaching kids in our schools ?! Seriously??? 
I came to Canada 40 years ago from former Czechoslovakia in 1984 (!!!), and now it feels like I am living in Orwell's 1984. This is crazy!!! What is happening to this country???? My daughter thinks that things are not bad yet, but she is not stupid and understands that one day either her or her kids will want to leave Canada.

[marionbacon]

Glad you had Bruce Pardy on…a great Canadian fighting for our Rights.

[Nicky_Leone]

Thank you Jordan! Canadians would be lost without you ♥️

[shawnerinleclerc]

You're not alone - my husband is a Canadian lawyer that agrees with you and many of his lawyer friends feel the same.

[earlliotti]

I am thankful that, at least while the society is crumbling apart, I may still listen to these intelligent people have productive conversations. Thank you.

[thebeard]

A world of health and safety ... Gone MAD

[do]

"This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." - Plato

[tonyshiakallis]

I had no idea who Bruce Pardy was until today, but I am very happy to listen to this man talk. Kostantin is a fantastic guest, I hope you have him back on the show soon.

[ZOA]

This is exactly what we need. We need more professors and legal voices discussing these policies and laws in the west. Please keep hosting these talks

[stvbrsn]

Every time (in the last 10 years or so) when I hear *yet more* about the re-jiggering of our language, I pull out my standard one-liner joke… it goes something like this:

“Oh sorry, I don’t understand. You see, I haven’t yet received my latest copy of the Newspeak dictionary…

I’m still using the 1983 edition.”

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin

[vbell]

I wanted Konstantin to be more a part of this conversation. I wanted to hear more from him and don't feel that room was made for him. That be said, as a Canadian, I appreciated the breakdown and analysis of the bill by Mr Pardy and Dr P. Thank you!

[je__.]

"some harm is a consequence of freedom and thats the price we're willing to pay" amen