Update: What is Kibbe WIDTH?

[lilya]

These dress comparisons don’t make sense because they have totally different cuts in the neckline and bodice. You would have to compare the types in the same dress to see the difference more accurately.

[sharrlizz]

This is certainly helpful. It would be good to see examples of what it looks like when the shoulder causes fabric to pull vs when the bust causes fabric to pull. Thanks!

[somewhereisgone]

Yesss finally an accurate video. It's how Kibbe styles the clothes on a body, how they need to be cut to suit a frame, then on top of that he layered some archetypes which tend to go with those accommodations. But it's guidelines more than actual rules. 😉

[Just_Kirsty]

I've read somewhere that Kibbe had said it is about the highest point of your shoulder being the point where the shoulder seam is supposed to sit. On some people the highest point is further in (e.g. any Romantic ID) and on another person it's further out than the bust or chest line (e.g. any Natural ID). On Classic IDs I feel like it's often just right above the chest line. I'm calling it chest line, because it's easier for me to understand if I do look at the chest and bust seperately. On me the bust line doesn't curve out, it's straight and my shoulders are aligned with the chest line forming a straight vertical line. This also makes it easier to see if one has width and curve (SN) or small, rounded/tapered shoulders and curve (R or TR). I think a lot of people struggle with the reference of the dressmaking perspective (to me it was enlightening because I do have some experience with dressmaking, but if one doesn't they really might struggle with that quote) whereas "the highest point of the shoulder" is easier to imagine, to visualize, to see for the majority of people. And I did cross-check if it makes sense and if that comment I had read would be valuable and I find it VERY helpful. I also cross-checked on myself if it works for me and it does. The highest point of my shoulders is exactly where my shoulder seams sit and even on the cheapest, most stretchy fabric (in longsleeves that look like you would never be able to fit in, but they are so stretchy that they kinda mold to your body) the shoulder seam will sit exactly there on me.

I was told I do have width yet was suspecting I might not have it but wasn't sure if I just was unable to see it myself. Now thanks to this video and that said comment I had read, I am 100% sure I don't have width. And that explains why I - despite liking unconstructed and loose lines in general - always feel and felt a bit lost in FN lines (sometimes even felt drowned by them) and thought it was me being just too biased to see the truth.

To be honest, I also was told I had curve, but realized way later that that person typing me didn't understand Kibbe curve themselves and was actually looking at my hips and not my upper body at all. The so called softness I had (or she saw in me) was due to carrying a slight bit of extra weight and baby fat back then (which I both lost in my early 30's). Nowadays even when I gain a bit of weight you can still see my bone structure very well which wasn't the case back then.

I personally tried to see all the traits of a Natural ID within me but couldn't. I tried to convince myself that I am just not good at seeing these traits and that my gut feelings were all wrong. But if none of the recommendations work for you, the chosen ID will most likely be the wrong one for you. There is no need to try to squeeze yourself in the wrong ID at all. And that honestly might actually be a factor that does make people think this system doesn't even work. This and the factor that many people over-complicate explaining Kibbe terms. And I feel like most of these people don't understand the terms themselves.

Another mistake I made was ruling out a complete ID branch (Classic) in the very beginning of my Kibbe journey because of the fact I understood the terms wrong. And that was actually the correct branch for me. I had also ruled it out because I heard it was rare to be one of these IDs. But when I went back in and read the descriptions and the recommendations for the ID(s) again, I felt so stupid to rule it out without further investigation. I did land on DC and every single recommendation works for me. And let me tell you: The typical selfie isn't the best reference to see either your ID nor your essences because lense distortion is really messing with your proportions. It's also easier to see your proportions and individual blend if you don't wear make up and don't wear much on your body. Especially if anything you would wear can shape your body (push up bras, padded bras, certain types of leggings and sports tops that "suck you in" or shape your waist and hip area etc.). I'm just pointing that out because I have seen people wearing such things when posting on reddit, asking what people think they might be. Don't do that, it just overcomplicates things too much.

[irisellie]

It finally clicked to me what "relative to your body" means. Oh my gosh. Thank you for making this much so easier to understand!!

[azaztheunabridged]

Something I would love to learn more about is how building muscle affects things like width. There's not a lot of solid guidance about it. I know it is commonly said that your type doesnt change with weight nor muscle, but to me it seems to have at least some impact. I am a FG with a fairly narrow frame, but since I've built up some upper body muscle, I find that gamine lines can start to look too stiff, especially around the shoulders and chest/upper back. It starts to pull in strange ways. I've had to shift to a middle ground between gamine and natural lines

[Ameyafinds]

For the longest time, I thought of myself as SN but with this outline and explanation, I can see double curve in me! I'll still experiment with both SN and R clothes cause what's important to me is to feel confident with how the fabric falls on my body. (I'm into sewing). Thank you for this!

[divorceguru]

This was so helpful thank you! Looking at it from a dressmaking perspective make so much more sense now! I sew clothes so I can totally understand now. To put it another way, take your standard pattern for a fitted dress block and look at the adjustments that you have to make to get it to fit you perfectly. People who tend to need the widen the shoulder area on all their patterns probably have "width", people who tend to need a full bust adjustment have curve, people who need to lengthen the bodice have vertical line, people who always need to shorten everything are petite, and those people who basically need almost no adjustments to the standard pattern would most likely be classics...? Something like that?

[Slastukin]

This is by far the best explanation of width that I have seen. The shoulder seam line. Of course! That makes perfect sense.

[Gwenny]

Holistic is the needed description! This helps to not fall into a trap of looking at it in black or white with the definition. People should relax a bit more about the "rules " that define the bodytype

[bingonight]

Oh my gosh, ive never ever heard the explanation of your shoulder seams being the widest part of the body. That makes so much sense. Width was the one accomodation that I still didnt "get" completely because so many people think the arms count as part of your shoulders for some reason?? By that logic every human being in the world would have width 😂 Thank you I can feel confident i am soft classic and not a soft natural now

[wildcatste]

This is the most helpful explanation of this I’ve heard about width

[dianathomas]

This is a great, intelligent system that changes, and potentially saves, lives.
Personally, I found the former video on width more helpful, where the size of the back and rib cage was shown as width.
As this doesn't concern most people, I can see that there is some confusion with the taller types, and there may definitely be room for improvement within the system.
There seems to be a huge gap between the straight Dramatic, and the full on va-va-voom of the Soft Dramatic.
For me this is not just a curiosity, but quite a personal matter with which I've spend some time and energy.
I am tall, with super narrow, long and sharp bone structure, but the distance between my shoulders is the widest part of my body. Yet I don't have a wide back and ribcage, but am over all rather delicate, like you may picture a ballet dancer, a career I was in fact considering at some point before a nasty injury.
Regression aside.
At first I thought I was a Flamboyant Natural, merely due to my shoulders, but further investigation showed that I do absolutely not pull off recommendations for the Natural types, but look my best in Dramatic lines. Natural lines look sloppy on me, and I look like a lost little baby bird when trying on the Natural line recommendations. I've noticed the same with Keira Knightly, a verified Dramatic, if I remember correctly.
Natural hair and make up recommendations look horrid on me, and extremely aging, just like Kibbe's Metamorphosis predicts. To make the confusion complete, I have some female, upper body curve as well, but the SD recommendations are far too much for my body type, and I have through months of meticulous trial and error landed on Dramatic, even with shoulder "width" and some mammary action upstairs.
I know many people will come screaming it's not possible Dramatics are straight and that's it, but it's not a purely mathematical system, but more of a sliding scale.
I hope this can help somebody who doesn't fit 100% into any type description.
If in doubt, there is always a way out by narrowing down the options to a couple of types and trying on the recommendations, to see what looks the best.
Good luck, everybody!

[MoreFeen]

Now it makes sens! I do NOT have kibbe width. I do have shoulders that aren't extremly anything cuz I am very balanced. But I often have the problem of sleefs sliping off for example

[Houseofgamine]

This definitely helps me understand those with a fashion design or tailoring background get it more quickly. Ic you every sewn clothes you understand width, vertical, petite, elongation etc which is really what Kibbe is all about. Also makes me realize why Kibbe was so anti-internet with his system.

[rosielele]

My god you are the Kibbe whisperer! So on point.

[Houseofgamine]

Thank you for being so accurate and clear in your explanations. You’re not adding to it and keeping true to the “essence” of the original intention of the system. I’m pretty sure I saw color in your intro so can’t wait for that. You articulate this system so beautiful I can’t wait for color.

[kristengilbert]

This is a much more comprehensible explanation for width than what I've previously seen. I'm FN, and it worked for me when I tried it out. Good luck with your new & improved accounts!

[withluvjosie]

This is so helpful, thank you so much! This made me realise I don't have width. One step closer to finding my type thank to you!! <3

[mo-aurora]

This is the best video I have seen to date on what width means. Thank you so much!