Ross's Game Dungeon: Sonic Heroes

Ross tries to be a hero in Sonic Heroes.

[TheMaabusAdmiral]

Times have been tough, the Admiral is not doing so good. Things aren't starting to make sense, more later.

[lordofthingz]

Pilot here.
Casino: probably 2000 or so feet, depending on the height of those buildings. You look higher at night than you really are.
Forest: I would guess 5000 to 7000 feet, hard to say. If those trees down there are as tall as redwoods its 7000, otherwise normal trees for maybe 5000.
Canyon: 1000 or 2000. Looks higher because the nearby sides gives you parallax.
Fleet: Easily over 80000 feet. You need at least an SR71 blackbird to get that amount of curvature on the horizon, and even then thats unlikely. Ask Felix Baumgartner (free fall height record) and he might know better.

Source: I am a pilot. I fly cargo too, so you can trust me more than airline guys. We dont have autopilot so we are allowed to look outside more.

[falguard]

Craziest thing about Big the Cat is that he shares a voice actor with Duke Nukem.

"That eggheaded bastard's gonna pay for stealin' my frog."

[olo]

26:45 is my favorite quote of the video

"Sonic has no money, so the only thing he has to gamble with is his life, and the lives of his friends."

[michaelmccarty]

There is no such thing as Gamer Dementia, Gordon, you're just being paranoid.

[makingitwork]

This is not a game I would have expected for Game Dungeon or to have gotten an hour long video. Let's go.

[stormstrider]

"How do Tails' tails work?"
You're asking some dangerous questions, Ross.

[tripodranger]

Member of the cult of Sonic here. Amy's deal is basically she's the infatuated fangirl, and Sonic isn't really interested mostly because he's not the type of guy that likes being tied down. Nothing really explains why Neo Metal Sonic has liquid powers, he just does. There's some fan conjecture going around that it's somehow related to Chaos from the first Adventure, but nothing is officially explained. I can't explain Tails except that he's a mutant freak. Eggman has often stated his dream is to build "Eggmanland", some kind of theme park paradise of his design. It seemed to start small, as in Adventure he was only going to level Station Square and build on top of it, but by Unleashed he seems to have ambitions to turn the entire world into "Eggmanland". And, no, as far as I'm aware, chaos juice doesn't turn Knuckles into a vampire.
One note about Sonic Heroes, the PC version is supposedly based on a pre-release build of the game, which means it features technical issues the other versions don't have, and those aren't technical masterpieces, either. Gamecube and Xbox are probably the best versions to play, and you just want to avoid the ps2 version. Sonic games were notoriously worse on ps2 than any other console.
Also, I loved your analysis of that first cutscene. These characters really don't seem to have any sense of danger. And don't worry. We have ways of punishing those that don't belong to the cult for their sacrilege.

[Grif]

"Like lenny from mice and men"

Yeah, something tells me Big has gone through a few Froggy's after petting a little too hard...

[Umqualquerporra]

"If you like Sonic, and abuse..."

Still haven't figured out the Sonic cult, Ross?

[DaMainman]

*Q1:*
You're not crazy for thinking Amy looked like a "little girl" when she appeared in 'Sonic CD'; Sonic is (supposed to be) about 15, and she's listed as 8 in that game's manual.
Amy's hobby is (was?) fortune-telling, and based solely on those fortunes, she believes Sonic is destined to marry her.
When they changed her design for 'Sonic Adventure', they aged Amy up to 12, so the rest of your guesses were pretty accurate.

*Q2:*
Cast your mind back to that Team Rose intro cinematic. Chocola and Froggy went missing, and Sonic was the suspected culprit.
Turns out, it was really Metal Sonic, and he did it to absorb the 'Chaos' DNA that both characters happen to be carrying. (something something 'Sonic Adventure')
However, the power-up that Metal gains (especially the liquid-metal shapeshifting) makes him go a wee bit power-mad.
He overthrows Robotnik, pretends to _be_ Robotnik, and then lures in all the heroes so he can copy all of _their_ abilities too.
So, yeah, Robotnik isn't in a hurry to let this happen again. Less grey goo, more folding time and space upon itself.

*Q3:*
It's one of those "We just don't know" questions, like "Does Sonic have separate eyes with a white area in-between, or an unfathomable uni-eye?".

*Q4&5:*
Robotnik has an IQ of 300, but a childish sense of fair play. He does things the way he does because it's more fun that way.
Without the 'fun' of trying to thwart Sonic, Robotnik would _probably_ become destructively nihilistic; his alternate reality / continuity counterparts certainly are.

*Q6:*
Up until 'Sonic Mania' rolled around, all of the classic Super forms besides Sonic's were retconned out of existence.
Putting a weird gold bubble around Tails and Knuckles in this game was their way of side-stepping the issue.

Also, the PC version? It's an earlier build than the console versions, so it's jankier in places.
And yes, 3D Sonic games have God-tier OSTs, but 'Sonic Heroes' is easily the King among Gods.

[System]

He’s not smart but he’s huge and he follows orders.

Ross got Bigs character down instantly.

[severalcakes]

"See, Sonic has no money, so all he has to gamble with is his life." That's not a sentence I was expecting to hear this morning.
Also, nice Omelas reference!

[jessegd]

I just realized: Eggman had to gather the resources and tools to build his robots, as well as program them. He probably had to start with simple stuff to make the process of building more robots go along quicker, effectively multiplying his production for every robot built until he could reliably set up an assembly line. But before that, he had to get even more resources to build those robots, so he had to build robots to get those resources to build more robots to build his robots, on top of programming said resource gatherers who had to get metals, plastics, parts, oils, and more. And he would need security too, so he would have had to build the gatherers, workers, and keep them safe with probably mercenary forces until he could build up enough security robots. But wait, he would have to supply THOSE robots too, with armaments and armor and spare parts to make repairs, which means building and programming more robots to build and assemble more robots, munitions, and spare parts. So, after he hits critical mass, he has enough robots to do all the menial tasks and get the bare bones needed for his production line... but he still needs infrastructure like facilities, which for short term he could just rent space and outsource the work until, once again, he gathers the materials, builds and programs the workers, who then gather construction supplies and materials to build his own facilities which will speed up production on all fronts, as well as storage, and then he can start building bigger and bigger robots to handle mass transportation, railways, shipping across sky and sea, as well as enough security to protect all of that...

Bottom line: Dr. Ivo Robotnik is a Factorio player.

[waterdrinker]

"Lost and confused while being exposed to images of Sonic being burned alive over and over again" seems like a pretty accurate description of the experience of being a Sonic fan for the past 25 years.

[Doctorderrp]

"This must be about some obscure game that happens to share the name, he wouldn't make a video about 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 Sonic Heroes"

[DeepDiveDevin]

Notes from a member of the Sonic cult:

1. I recommend the Sonic Rush games if you want as little stop-and-go gameplay as possible. Dunno how you feel about DS emulation though.

2. It's not really your fault, but the number one reason for homing attack failure is not waiting long enough between A-presses.

3. Sonic is 15, Amy's 12. He's never shown much genuine attraction for anyone in the games, I think he's possibly asexual. In the comics he goes out with Sally, Mina and Fiona at various points, but *never* Amy. In the most recent cartoon they've got some mutual attraction, but Amy in that show is much more reserved, she never obsesses over him like in other media.

4. You're not wrong about the high-up controls. They're _especially_ terrible in this game. Barring the last level, to this day, I think Sonic CD might be the only Sonic game with no pits to fall in.

5. Do not feel any responsibility for the pinball controls, they are absolute fucking nonsense. The best advice I can give is "hold forward".

6. I literally did not realize this until last week when I played the game, but you're not actually supposed to mash the button on rails, you hold it down and use the stick to balance. It's deceptive, since in Adventure 2, you don't jump when you speed up, and in SHADOW, which is built off Heroes' engine, you DO mash the button.

7. There IS an AI-upscaled texture mod for this game, it's on Gamebanana, along with the mod loader you use to run it.

8. The checkpoints in this game aren't designed like the starposts and gates in just about every other Sonic game, that might be part of you ignoring them. Also, the game can be really stingy with them, even without your help.

9. This is the first and last game that Metal Sonic can magically turn liquid. Weirdly, both this game and Sonic Battle, which came out on the same day, have alternate storylines surrounding Shadow's amnesia and a robot that copies everyone else's powers.

10. The Tails rant is funny, because even creators on the series have no idea how it works. Tyson Hesse (redesigned movie Sonic, writes and draws for the comics) drew a parody comic a few years back called "Hedgehog the Sonic" where Tails attempts to fly with his arms and breaks all his bones.

11. The Shadow bit is so on-point, even modern material (mostly the comics and TV shows) uses it for comedic effect. Shadow is obsessed with the edge aesthetic to an actual fault. It literally almost gets everyone killed in the most recent arc.

12. The #1 fan of Knuckles is Ken Penders, the psychotic former comic writer who was so obsessed with adding echidna lore and characters, including "Enerjax" (actually Enerjak, with a K) that he sued Bioware over Sonic Chronicles for doing it themselves, then when SEGA and Archie counter-sued him, he managed to make it out of the whole ordeal with nearly every major Knuckles relative from the comics, which he's trying to make into a NEW comic book called The Lara-su Chronicles, which has some of the most disturbed and terrifying Sonic character art I've ever seen.

13. If you build up some speed, you can make that Mystic Mansion wall jump with Tails.

14. Eggman is the best character. He is consistently the most fun in terms of writing or acting.

15. Chaotix is a fever dream of a game. It's also really boring once you get past the art and sound.

16. I think Eggman is probably a defense contractor. In Sonic Battle, he sells E-series robots to companies looking for guards, the military robots in Adventure 2 and Rush are basically identical to his, just with less personality. That said, the Robotnik robots without animals are typically weaker than specialized badniks. Sonic Lost World has the animals again, and enemies are way harder to beat in that game.

17. Eggman's actual literal goal is transforming the world into a robotic amusement park where every citizen is constantly terrorized and possibly seriously injured. He almost accomplishes this in Sonic Unleashed, but that only happened because he broke the Earth into pieces.

18. The lack of a drop shadow is one of the biggest problems in both this game and Unleashed. It's not your fault.

19. Team Sonic's playthrough is hard, but if you've ever tried Team Dark, you will know how miserable a game this can be.

20. I did get the actual end to this game legitimately. It sucks.

21. While not a vampire, Ken Penders did write Knuckles as a stand-in for Jesus Christ at many points. He actually had so many magic powers and heroic prophecies bestowed upon him that current writer Ian Flynn dubbed Penders Knuckles "The Hot Pocket of Destiny".

22. This game DOES have crippling issues. It's programmed badly. The physics and collision are just very poor. Even at their worst, most other Sonic games function better than this one. 06 and Secret Rings probably don't, but even Sonic Boom doesn't kill you for no reason.

[venya]

Sonic Fan here: For anyone wondering, Metal Sonic went nutty in this game and betrays Eggman as a result of losing to Sonic in past games. He thinks himself as both the original Sonic and the duplicate. Wanting to prove he's better, Metal somehow upgrades himself into the T-1000 / Neo Metal Sonic and locks Eggman up, impersonating him throughout the game. Eggman contacts Team Chaotix and anonymously hires them to go rescue him. Metal sends the message to Sonic in order to lure him in.

Using his new T-1000 powers, Metal Sonic copies the biodata of every team. He also steals Big's frog and copies its data because Froggy ate the tail of a destroyer god back in Sonic Adventure. And since the destroyer god in question was a mutated Chao, Metal disguises himself as Sonic using shapeshifting and steals Chocola, a chao belonging to Cream. This is what gets Team Rose in on the plot.

After all the plots happen, Metal Sonic confronts everyone and transforms into a clusterfuck of a dragon. Sonic goes Super Saiyan, Metal loses, day is saved.

The reason Eggman doesn't deploy Metal Sonic as Neo Metal Sonic again in the games is implied to be because Neo Metal Sonic is a form that's inherently too out of control. It's explicitly stated in supplementary material that Eggman installs a restraining bolt on Metal Sonic following Heroes. The IDW comics on the other hand does bring Neo Metal Sonic back, explaining that during Sonic Forces, Eggman was working on upgrading Metal to re-upgrade him but with the loyalty intact this time. But this is all out-of-game stuff, so who knows for sure.

Sonic lore is wack.

[tenebrisregina]

51:46 is just Ross creating the freedom fighters storyline without realising it. Like all the points he brought up are in the comics in addition to Eggman kidnaping and turning people into robots. Basically there was no legal way to stop him and Sonic became a revolutionary freedom fighter.

Robotnic's end goal is basically to turn everyone and everything into machines. He'll pollute the entire planet to the point no life can be sustained but it'll be fine since he'll have "fixed" everyone's "problem" of needing clean air or water in the first place. This also involves taking the need for sleep as well as freewill away from everyone, leaving himself as the last being of freewill on the planet.

[itaybron]

Need a "haunted controls" awards.