The Big Problem With Orchestral Libraries

There's a big problem with orchestral libraries these days and we need to talk about it.

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CHAPTERS
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0:00 - 11 Years Ago
0:44 - History Lesson
02:56 - Libraries today
05:30 - Value
06:56 - Gimmicks
07:58 - The problem
09:20 - The solution?
11:55 - Closing words

[AshleyKampta]

Modelling is the future of sample libraries. I think sample libraries should be going smaller in terms of size, not bigger. I've slimmed down to a laptop-based setup, running Audio Imperia Nucleus for traditional samples, with Aaron Venture brass and winds and Pianoteq for keys. My template takes up only a third of the RAM on my 16 GB machine and sounds better than anything I had achieved with other sample libraries previously. I'll be investing in only modelled libraries (Sample Modelling, V-Winds/Horns, Aaron Venture), sound design plugins or budgeting to record real players going forward (with this being the end-game goal), but my days of buying traditionally-sampled orchestral (or other) libraries have definitely come to an end. Why do I need 230 GB of drums (Superior Drummer 3), or 200+ GB of just strings with 26 mic positions (Spitfire HZ Strings)? It's not justifiable for me personally, and really isn't pushing the industry forward in terms of technology, or supporting those who are trying to do new things with sampling.

[NeuroPete]

As hobbyist composer, I admire anyone who can make a living at it. Before retiring from my non-music job 14 months ago, I went crazy buying sample libraries, and other virtual instruments in anticipation of a big drop of income. I spent a lot of money on orchestral libraries from Spitfire and the NI Komplete collection.
If I could do it over, I would buy a Musio perpetual license instead, for the price of one or two expensive Spitfire or Cinesample libraries. I got Musio recently to fill in some of the gaps in my instrument collection. There is a huge number of libraries included. It seems that it doesn't have the full controls to create the highest level of convincing and nuanced mockups for professional composers, but I don't have the skill or desire to do so, now that I understand a little about how much work and knowledge is involved. I should have realized that all I really want is to arrange the songs I write with some beautiful orchestral elements that sound not obviously fake. Of course, since I already own the lovely Spitfire stuff, I will use it, but much of the Musio collection is damn nice too, such as the Tina Guo cellos and the Gina Luciani flutes.

[GraemeHindmarsh]

I think it depends on what sort of music you want to make. If I want to mock-up a piece that will ultimately be performed by a real orchestra then I'll always use VSL. They seem to be the closest to what you'll hear in a recording studio. If your music is solely studio based and unlikely to be performed by a live ensemble, then use whatever library sounds good to you!
Also, and this applies to all libraries, find out what your samples can do - it will save you money!

[StrezovSampling]

Good points Brian. Still amazed that barely any devs really update their existing products. Yes you cannot capitalize on updates as much as on new releases, but still leaving users with broken products should not be an option.

[DesoloZantas]

The biggest issue with all libraries is their inconsistency. There's always something missing in one that another offers, but then that second library lacks something else entirely. It becomes a constant struggle to find a compromise, but if you need specific features to work together, it can feel nearly impossible. Combining libraries is an option, but that often introduces EQ matching problems and inconsistencies between recordings, breaking the illusion you're trying to create when blending them.

After 16 years of experience, I’ve found this to be a persistent challenge. If there were a library that could learn from all the others and perfect a single instrument, I’d say VirHarmonic's Bohemian Solo Strings comes closest. What sets it apart is the painstaking attention to detail—each instrument feels like it took years to perfect, and they only offer three solo strings. The Bohemian Violin in particular stands out for its realism and depth. If I could find other instruments, whether ensembles or solos, as meticulously crafted as that violin, it would truly be my Holy Grail.

[ammy]

This video explains why I absolutely respect Jasper Blunk and Performance Samples. Really innovative sampling and just hard work and commitment to quality :)

[PeterTomlinsonComposer]

This is why Jasper Blunk and Aaron Sapp are my two favorite devs. They both genuinely care about pushing the art of sampling forward. And their products are really incredible

[donaldduck]

What I want to see much more often in libraries are patches that recognize my playing style and determine which articulation is most appropriate at the moment, resembling the lively playing of a real musician. There's nothing worse than trying to mimic an organic playing style using key switches or many different tracks.

[bunkersamples]

I mostly agree. There are tons of small indie devs out there committed to creating quality libraries, but of course only a few of us can afford to get into the orchestral game. Jasper and Aron have that area pretty well covered from an indie perspective, but the rest of us try to push the envelope in other ways, it’s just hard to break through the noise from the big devs.

[honigdachs.]

I stopped buying orchestral libraries years ago. I used to be on the hunt for the best, greatest, most realistic and expressive, etc., and I wish I could get the money I spent while on this quest, haha. After acquiring enough of these things, I realized that they all sound good. As long as you know what you're doing, there's a certain level of quality you can achieve in your mockups and any "major" library can get you there. There is no need for more libraries until some real quantum leap happens that redefines the whole idea of sampling and/or modelling. And I don't see that happening any time soon.

[diglyd]

So what are your 3 main libraries, and what are your other 2-3 that you use to layer or fill in? Maybe consider making a video giving your recommendations while discussing some more nuance. Which ones do you think play well together? Which increase or improve your workflow? Which sound good to you?

What do you consider to be quality libraries and/or synths/instruments?

Personally, I'm still a huge fan of Omnisphere, Zebra2/Diva, Albion One, Cinebrass, Cineperc, Tina Guo Cello, OT Berlin Woodwinds, Cinematic Studio Series, The Etheras, Oceania Choir, Abbey Road One Foundations (as a supplementary library), BBC Core ($240 on sale was a pretty good deal for an entire orchestra in a box), Albion Solstice, and some of the NI Komplete stuff like Damage, The Giant/Alicia's Keys/Una Corda pianos, Thrill for more aleatoric stuff, and Mysteria. I stopped buying stuff once I got these and a few niche things. Haven't bought a string library in years. The only thing I still want to get at some point is E/W Hollywood Opus, just so I can check out the strings and play with the orchestrator. It's a lot cheaper now compared to what it was at release, and still a lot of value.

On a side note, AI companies such as OpenAI or ElevenLabs and Udio or Suno will probably make Sample libraries, and sample library developers who don't integrate AI, obsolete. Maybe not yet, but in 2-3 years or so, its going to happen because this stuff is moving at an incredible pace. I won't need a sample library when I will be able to tell some AI to add some violins or a chamber orchestra or some choir to the score I wrote, or the melody I hummed.

Some companies like Cinesamples are jumping on the AI bandwagon, but guys like Spitfire are still stuck in the past believing that people are going to be spending 2k on some bs overpriced modular Abbey Road library that nobody actually asked for, or needs, that they claim is the next best thing since slice bread. Spitfire makes some great things, but it also makes complete garbage, and are sometimes completely out of touch. For example, find me a single use case for their Cassette Orchestra. I can't. I haven't seen a single review or a single person who actually made anything with that library. I learned to not buy into any more marketing bs or gas.

[KrystofDreamJourney]

10:56. Essential comment ! Myself- I pretty much got everything I needed libraries wise around about 2 years ago. That was the last time I purchased anything (filling in the last gaps in all orchestral sections). The sounds, articulations, realism got pretty much so perfect that IMHO they already reached an apogee of design and sonic demands in the hands of a skilled composer/orchestrator. There’s not much (if anything) one can add to what already existed 2 years ago, so buying “new” products makes zero sense if you’re satisfied with the results you can achieve with what you already have. All it takes now is your own creativity, amount of time (oh yes, it does take time !) you can devote to perfect each and every every line… Careful Hybriding is the key if you want to achieve “your” timber. I doubt if I will ever purchase anything anymore, unless someone creates the way to do your own portamentos between any combination of strings notes (YOUR combinations, with your starting and ending notes, with your tempo etc. NOT the pre-recorded ones with fixed duration and notes).

[tronam]

New products by Performance Samples still impress me after all these years. I also love how imperfect they sound.

[busyworksbeats]

For us music producers in hip hop, the libraries were just WAY too expensive.

I understand quality costs but when each library costs more than the DAW, it’s a hard decision to make.

Maybe for you guys getting $2, 000+ sync fees, it’s pennies lol but to most music producers not in sync, the prices were the hard obstacle.

[ephjaymusic]

There's pros and cons to all the libraries. I prefer to use libraries that offer control with a UI that I can cope with, even if it requires a bit of time to learn. LASS and MSS are more complicated than most other libraries imo, but that's basically all I use for the majority of all the string work I do and I love them to bits.
As long as you're ok with creating a bunch of automation lanes, they do exactly what I need and I think they can sound very convincing. I've also had happy feedback from music supervisors who are extremely critical about things like realism for orchestral work, so to me at least, this is a good sign.
A cute feature of going to study orchestration at a formal institution is having libraries to mess about with before deciding to purchase one, as many music schools have a bunch of libraries already installed, and often the teachers will bring a dedicated HD+license key with them to use when giving a class. But obviously the cost of the education like that far outweighs the cost of most libraries...😂
I waited a couple of years before buying any specific libraries, and really "spammed" my teachers and friends beforehand to make sure I knew all about them/try them out at their studios etc. before dropping my cash on anything.
Thanks for the video! Really interesting topic, and I definitely agree that orchestral libraries have basically plateaued in the last few years.

[jimrogers]

Great video! Spitfire is now beginning to flirt with the subscription model. However, since Christian’s departure from the company it feels like their heart and soul has diminished, if not completely disappeared. You make many valid points here… thank you for your willingness to speak out! Cheers!

[victorcobane]

For me personally, as someone who has limited time and limited funds, and who isn't even ready to release anything yet, much less make a profit or anything, I think that while getting a library that is "just right" could help boost my track by 1 or 2 percent to the finish line, I have to realize that that 1 or 2 percent might just not be in the budget, time or money wise.
I would much rather just buy one or two libraries I am confident in and I feel will work for most of what I want to attempt and then pour my time, money, and soul into that remaining 98% to make it as good as possible. Especially considering the fact that if I spend too much time and effort on finding the perfect sound or patch, it will actually hurt that remaining 98%, the composition, what I actually like and care about, since I won't have any time or energy left for it.
That's just my perspective though.

[alvarorodriguezfilmmusic]

So true, I've been saying this for years. In fact it's always surprised me how developers have managed to stay afloat for so long without selling anything better.

And don't get me wrong, they've been selling new interesting stuff too. But these libraries aren't usually traditional orchestral libraries and aren't definitely the 'big name/big release' they try to build hype about – those big names are ALWAYS traditional orchestral libraries.

[IlkoBirov]

Also, on the topic of Try Before You Buy, 8Dio used to do something interesting: release a limited-scale version of a library for a fraction of the price, just so users could get a feel for what it could do. It was fully functional, but with fewer samples (and a range of one octave).

Great video btw, I agree with what you are saying and I've noticed the same thing in recent years. I too still get excited when I read about the upcoming BEST THING EVER library, only to find that it's a 60GB legato-only module with 30 mic positions or something of that sort.
Companies seem to be putting more effort into putting out more libraries than putting out good-sounding and well-scripted ones.

[dkbbass]

Thanks for taking time to make this, it's stopping buying more libraries I really don't 'need' just because they're on sale.
I have subscribed to EW to try HD2 and so far have had big problems with Violins 1 legato doing some very weird things, for example playing two notes together a semi tone apart 😮. Tech support did respond very quickly but not solved. So far glad i haven't bought it.
A review of HS2 would be great.