John Eliot Gardiner: Bach's Habit of Imperfection | Big Think

John Eliot Gardiner: Bach's Habit of Imperfection
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Gardiner, author of the new book, Bach: Music in the Castle of Heaven, has a unique perspective on Bach. He is both a historian and a world-renowned conductor who has throughout his career made hundreds of recordings on the prestigious Deutsche Grammophon label. Bach, the orphan rebel, had a suspicion of authority that ran deep throughout his life, and made him an often domineering and unpleasant person to deal with.

Gardiner doesn't see any contradiction here. "The very fact that this music is so profound and so uplifting and the man is clearly not a saint makes it all the more interesting," he says.
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JOHN ELIOT GARDINER:

Sir John Eliot Gardiner CBE FKC is an English conductor and the author of Bach: Music in the Castle of Heaven.
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TRANSCRIPT:

John Eliot Gardiner: I think there’s been a slightly deplorable tendency amongst Bach’s biographers to paint Bach the human being in a very complimentary light. To imply that great music requires a great man and a great human being and a great personality to be behind it. Well, of course great music requires a creator but it doesn’t have to be a paragon – he doesn’t have to be a paragon of virtue. And Bach certainly wasn’t.

The more that one discovers about him, the more one discovers that he was a deeply flawed character. That even though we have very, very few family records and letters to go on there are incidents that keep cropping up in his life at almost a repetitive pattern of antagonistic behavior between him and authority – the authorities for whom he worked. He was very combative. He really took them on.

But I think we can trace it back really to his earliest times. All right he started off in a presumably very happy family situation with both parents living but he didn’t go to school very often. We have a lot of records of truancy. Now, why? Why was he not at school? That’s one big question. Then comes the double shock of both parents dying before he’s ten. And his upheaval rooted as he was in Eisenach. He’s now uprooted and he goes to live with his elder brother, Johann Christoph, a few miles away in Ohrdruf.

And suddenly his grades shoot up, a reaction to his orphanhood – who knows. But the more I’ve been able to delve into the circumstances and the context of his schooling, the worse it becomes. It looks as if the schools – both the first two schools that he was involved in were prone to very modern sounding difficulties of, you know, overcrowding in classrooms, shortage of textbooks, hooliganism in the classroom, lobbing of bricks through windows, chasing of the girls, coming to school with daggers and spears and a good deal of unpleasant bullying and sadistic behavior.

There was one particular schoolmaster of Bach’s when he was in Ohrdruf and he was probably then only about 11 or 12 who was known as the bully and the sadist of the school. And eventually he got handed his cards and he left but not before inflicting God knows what damage on his pupils. And this is a theme that goes all the way through Bach’s schooling and we can’t say with assurance – well, he was damaged. But it does come out in certain ways.

For example, in his very first job that was when he was organist in Arnstadt. He gets into a quarrel with a bassoonist. He writes a piece of music with a rather difficult couple of riffs for the bassoon and the bassoonist obviously makes a complete mess of it, he can’t handle it. So Bach swears at him and calls him something pretty rude and the guy reacts by setting upon him in the market square. He comes up to him with a cudgel and Bach draws his sword and defends himself. And there’s tremendous fisticuffs which is only broken up by the onlookers.

And Bach goes off to his employers and says, “What’s all that? You know, you’ve got to protect me.” And they don’t. That leads to a feeling of suspicion of authority that runs right away through his life. And it comes up again and again and again. And that comes into the foreground when he’s working in Weimar for the two dukes – the Duke Wilhelm Ernest and his nephew who share the authority.

And Bach is unhappy there. He feels he’s been passed over for the succession to become Kapellmeister. He feels aggrieved. He looks for another job. He’s appointed, and he doesn’t get permission from the Dukes to leave. So they throw him into prison and for a month he’s disgraced and imprisoned.

[JazzGuitar]

"...Bach draws his sword..." In any context this phrase is amazing

[Mncdk]

Suspicion of authority is not a flaw, it is a virtue.
And there's a difference between skepticism and cynicism. Skepticism is a good thing. Always.

[telemachus]

Can you imagine having all that music inside him, the Passions, the Suites, Cantatas, fugues etc and then having to deal with petty bureaucrats? It's enough to drive anyone bonkers.

[finnibertlunchiken]

'At odds with authority' Bach rises in greatness.

[Pyratheon]

Sounds like Bach was a fucking legend.

[Elithelizard]

He's not the artist the world wants, but he's the artist the world needs now.
The Bachman!

[DIONYABA]

1) he WAS a great man, in the realest of sense.
2) How could a TITAN like him NOT undermine authorities
3) OF COURSE the person behind this music was a TOTAL BADASS !!!!

[Squidward_Tikiland]

it actually makes sense that a profoundly spiritual man would often find himself at odds with earthly authorities...much like Christ was

[peteswann]

Authority restricts, Bach creates, Bach wins.

[DarkskiesSiren]

I'm not surprised that Bach was a real man, and tired of being bullied.... Not sure how suspicion of authority is somehow the mark of a man with lower virtue than one without suspicion of the same... Indeed authorities have a tendency to screw people over constantly... So I don't appreciate that as a point, but I do agree that makes him more human and remarkable.

[nihilanthropus]

I just imagine Bach throwing his wig on basoonist and shouting "nicht ganz mein tempo!"(not quite my tempo!).

[LordyByron]

Bach was a genius, so why would he want to go to boring old school every day? That he had the balls to express impatience with pettiness and incompetence within the overbearingly powerful Church, pull a sword when attacked, and fight for music in the curriculum, speaks for his courage. Right, he wasn't a saint, he had a rebellious streak, and that was reflected in his amazing music, incorporating "impossible" counterpoint. Where's the imperfection Mr Gardiner?

[renep]

I think Gardiner makes a mistake to name a character as 'flawed', because he did not show up at school much and was antagonistic to authority. As he sais himself, in those days you were treated as a piece of shit and damaged at school. Would you want to go there? Authority in those days was not based on skill but just birth, and those guys could do pretty much do what they wanted. As a musician, you were just a servant. Would any modern employer in Europe lock you up for a month because you wanted to resign? He did not get the job according to his talents, while he knew he was the best. he was underpayed. He had to work his ass of harder then Gardiner ever will. Nobody here on YouTube would like to act as a slave for kings, lords and whatever. So I would argue Bach was humanistic and ahead of his time, who stood up against rulers, clergy, stupidity and injustice and did not like to be forced to kiss ass. What a guy!

[PointyTailofSatan]

It's Bach's stubbornness that made him the greatest Western musician ever. Later in life, even his sons were trying to get Bach to start using the "style gallant", with light melodies and simple rococo like harmony, as they felt his music was "old fashioned". Bach not only refused, but was said to be quite angry about it. One does not tell the Gods what to do, or how to do it. lol

[nigelgould-davies]

In which we learn that Bach was a "deeply flawed character" because: he was "combative against authority" that treated him badly, was orphaned as a child, stayed away from a bad school, got into the occasional argument, called someone a "dirty ear"....er, that's it.

[TheloniousMonk]

Not submitting to authority is a great virtue. Bach's music is full of innovations that probably shocked the musical "authorities" of the time. Lucky us that he was that way.

[davidcallahan]

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."-- Albert Einstein
If I have a choice I'd rather be a great spirit fighting to change the world than a saint at peace with its mediocrity.

[JoseFuentes-fndl]

Bach's music was also considered old fashioned when he was alive. Newer styles of music were coming out. But something classic never dies. I'm sure he had to defend his work or the very least ignore the critics. But he did his own thing and didn't conform.

[Musicienne-DAB]

First of all, Gardiner's interpretation of Bach has been one of the go-to standards over the last thirty or more years. I am grateful for his input on Bach's life, and enjoyed his documentary immensely. I have also ordered his book.
As to this video. I would never claim that Bach was a saint. But I feel that his defensiveness, independence and refusal to obey authority at times are for the most part entirely defensible. Musicians in his day were entirely at the mercy of their aristocratic employers and had no copyright over their property. Bach had expectations and ambitions, and he was determined to follow them through with or without the acquiescence of his superiors. That is admirable. He also didn't allow anyone to get in the way of his career, nor did he want anyone to dictate his music to him. Were all his fights justified? Perhaps not. But Bach knew that if he didn't defend himself, then he would be cast away. When you consider the fact that the Duke of Weimar had him thrown into prison for asking to resign, then his suspicion of and antagonism towards authority rather becomes understandable. I dare say that we wouldn't have the quality of music that we have today without some measure of artistic independence on Bach's part. Of course he wasn't a Saint. But there are justifiable reasons for his flaws.

[CentrifugalSatzClock]

It would seem that suspicion of authority is a good an logical trait, not an anti-social one.