THE SETTERS THAT WAS META JUST A WHILE AGO

they are the best but really such a drag when they counter it with their birdy

[LRSGamingYT]

These setter heroes were at their peaks when we had the Double-Tank Meta.

[fm_]

As a Minotaur main, I decided to switch to healer build. I've found out that keeping the 4 donkeys in your team alive is way more efficient than watching them die while you start to setup.

[yourcutemc]

Benifits of using tig is his cc chain. It's like a full 5-6 second cc (ult, both phase of 2nd skill) unlike Mino or Grock, Mino has delay before his cc on ult (2 fast slams, before cc then cc again with first skill, but the enemy will most likely got away by then, you can argue that you can use it with flick, but that doesn't matter as tigreal can do it too, so it doesn't really matter) and for Grock, his cc is very limited as his cc stun needs walls plus his walls needs to be in a good position, otherwise his ult is only a knockup for a few seconds. He's more like a Support/Assassin than Tank/Support tbh

[tutortle]

The thing is their ults are kinda easy to dodge or let's say predictable. Not to mention Minotaur is not really tanky, Tigreal feels more tankier even without heal. But Grock is the tankiest compare to those two mentioned. Grock is quite hard to set up since the enemy has to be close to the wall. You can use ult without wall, yes. But stunned is longer when you enemies hit the wall. Tigreal is the most easiest tank to set.

On other hand, sustain fighter is more durable and can deal damage at the same time. Just like Terizla, Yz, Ruby. Not to mention their ult cd is low too

[exusialikesapple]

The decline of traditional supports and tanks started with new items that made it harder for tanks to sustain due to increased burst damage and anti-healing. Earlier nerfs to tank items like Radiant Armor and others worsened the issue. The shift to damage-focused roamers and faster game tempos has led to many matches ending before 15 minutes, leaving traditional tanks and supports struggling to keep up.

[TomJezhuZCruiz]

They were meta once, but we have a healer problem and true damage problem in the current meta.

[mornan]

I like grock and minotaur but sky piercer + glowing wand melt them like butter😢

[danmart]

Because setters are best used for squad. Playing them solo is just difficult because no one will follow up

[EnemyBonker]

I still play minotaur til this day as a solo q player.
Edit: reason to why people choose natalia over a tank or assassin roam over a tank roamer is because they don't trust their teammates, it is hard to trust teammates in solo like if your team is bad and doesn't have enough damage cause everyone is feeding, what can you do as the tank?

[BySkycell]

Moonton nerfed them in purpose to shift the META on other heroes

[fahriagung-_.]

2:25 I just found out you can stop Fanny this way.

[Realsupergingerman]

Prob with this is that you need to rely on your team to finish the enemy off, which is sometimes not gonna happen when your carry are braindead. Which is why people just start to pick assassin or mage as roaming

[Bioxite-real]

I thought of a good revamp for grock and also let it be same as his lore.

Passive still the same.
1st will only need a tap now like leomord 1st.
2nd change the projectile to a big boulder and if you throw it and hit an enemy it stun them and make a wall on their opposite side.
3rd same but if hit someone or stun someone. His first will deal full charge damage even if he didn't charge it, and just tap it.
4th this is like carmella to cecil or angela on his team. You can ride grock but if he lose a portion of hp he get stunned and drop you off. On this scenario you can use your basic atk and skills. If grock has on orb on his shoulder their someone riding him. (if they use dash skill you will get off grock. Like terizla ult, odette 3rd skill dash, brody's second. Etc.

Battle scenario:
3v3 on mid lane tank and mm.
You hide with your mm on the bush.
You hit the enemy mm and stunned them. Your odette ride you, you use 3rd to to do a second set odette use her 3rd as well and kill all of them.


This revamp is practically lore accurate because grock is mountain giant and should be able to carry all his team on his shoulder because of how big is him

[extiv]

I was Minotaur main during his meta era. One thing that Minotaur struggles the most is high burst damage. If the enemy composition has a burst jungler/mage, he will struggle to be the frontliner during early. One combo and he's dead

[ineedmorecarrots]

the 2 relies heavily on flicker to get a good set while tig can still be an effective setter with conceal and has instant cc application and clumps all enemies so your team can effectively use their aoe skills

[boss_one]

Remember the big buff of Grock that make a full damage build a legit strategy? It's not much recognized at first, until two weeks later when many players felt the pain and Moonton nerfed Grock half of all damage. That's why I abused that buff that gave me about 24 stars and the rest from Balmond. (Epic 3 to Mythic - 2 stars) 😅

[raphyyyyyyqt]

Reason why Mino and Grock remained popular on tournas but not on RGs is because of something called damage roamer bias on RGs (which is popularized by Baloy with his signature Natalia, Saber and HC and as well as Vee with his signature Nova) though the major problem of having an damage roamer is that, you need to have at least one or two frontline heroes on your team, otherwise, wasted potential.

Do I still use tanks on RGs? Yes, though I'm more likely to use them on EXP lane like Fred, Barats, Grock, Uranus, Gloo and I have even cheezed EXP Baxia (totally an Flap moment) several times as I'm currently spamming fighter roamers like Arlott, Chou and even Kaja

[ranaoblivious]

Why tank roamer are becoming rare and assassin roamer such as Natalia becoming more common is due to public influence and low skilled teammate.
1) Why Low skilled teammate?
Every time a tank sets, their teammate ignore them or are not aware of it. Instead of helping or follow-up, they clear minion instead. Because the nature of tank requires their teams to finish of enemy, tank on their own can't do much. Unlike assassin roam, their form of support is 'lowering the enemy's hp' so their ally can finish it off or 'getting rid of one enemy'. Unlike tank, they can still function on their own. This gives roamer two option to work with. If supporting ally is not good, be the damage for the team and vice versa.
2) Why public influence?
Due to tank roamer switch into damage roamer and is showing good results, people naturally copies what works best. But because the people who copies it does not know the fundamental reason for damage roam, they become a burden instead. They think its like being the second hyper/jungler when its not.

This is why we have so much assassin roamer, some are good while others is bad.

Damage roam excel at pressuring enemy, poking them and securing kill when your ally can't. But too many of this players act as if their the second hyper.

[zeeen]

After all the def items were nerfed, all tank heroes became less able to survive in the early game.

[aahitagnidas]

In this assassin meta, they basically don't need long term cc to become viable; they just need some more hp in the team(hylos, belerick, etc) or more damage if the enemy is also squishy as hell(natalia, saber, etc). That's why the setters have become a little bit less popular. That doesn't mean they are bad. With susutaining junglers like roger, alpha, etc they can be useful.