Season 7 Jungle Rework - Introducing Plants

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[pedroscoponi]

I mean
Part of the reason I still play this game is because it changes so much, and since I love keeping up with the changes I don't get jumpscared like so many salty players I encounter out there
I don't mind the plants being there, but they feel really... exotic. Like they're not something I'd expecting in LoL. And I can see the playmaking potential, specially in the vision plants, but... How can I say this? They don't look... fun. They're just kinda there and kinda useful.
The change in the camps themselves scares me more, but it's all pre-pbe, so I'm not that worried yet.
This is certainly interesting, I 100% didn't see it coming. Even if it's not a good change, I'm excited anyway. XD

[Jet-Jots]

IMO: Perfect example of a situation where we could have said, if it ain't broken... don't fix it.

[UnbornHeretic]

Here are my thoughts.
Firstly, fuck tank junglers with low clear speeds apparently. The gromp buff was necessary for a lot of tank junglers to finish their clear in a speedy manner (Rammus comes to mind) and the smite increased cooldown is going to make it even worse. The junglers with a low damage output may see some difficulty because of these changes.
Secondly, there are about 2 major routes for the jungle and that is not going to change unless the do something drastic. The routes are starting Gromp and working your way to Krugs or vice versa, maybe skipping a couple camps depending on the jungler on the way or maybe backing at one point. These routes are here in order to optimize the amount of gold and xp you get for your time. The worst clear you could probably do would be Gromp>Krugs>Blue side scuttle>Red>Blue>Red side scuttle>Wolves>Raptors and there is a reason for that. By spending all that time moving, you would probably do a first clear in like 7 minutes or something. These routes are going to stay the same until a certain jungle item becomes particularly OP on a specific champion but he has a weak first clear so that champ has to make do by taking like
Thirdly, RIP off meta marksman junglers or really any jungler that relied on the krugs buff in order to help kite and mitigate some damage. Riot really must have hated Kog jungle and Twitch jungle to take this away. I do know that Xin and Jax are going to suffer because these are typically the ones taking the krugs buff. I don't know much about those 2 but their clear should be weaker than it is now.
Finally, the plants are basically a big F U to people actually tryign to be tactical due to RNG. Say you want to take drag and you made their lee sin already use his wards and/or clear all the wards out, or brush the drag as Ivern; Lee sin could get lucky and get a vision plant as you start it to look at and steal the dragon when you made so many tactical decisions and did it the best you absolutely coul to make it difficult to steal.
There is that Karthus ult that they even showed in the video that should have killed gnar but he got lucky enough to get a health plant on river. Karthus' ult has a 3 minute cooldown and is low damage early levels. How is it fair to Karthus, who got the sublime pick and best time to use his ultimate, to get screwed by some RNG plant that spawned on river? He waited for Gnar's passive to go down and there could have even been a Soraka on the enemy team, of whom he waited to use his ultimate after hers. His tactics and strategy were shut down completely by RNG.

[hedidit]

That wraith change is such a buff to mids. In higher elo's, mages with aoe just threw a skill on the wraiths for some fast xp and 30g. Now you get even more xp and 50g? Insane imo

[dionisioherculeopersepoles]

When I stopped playing back in season 2, it wasnt because of the state of the game at that particular time, but because I could extrapolate riot decision making was shit tier and would cause me endless headaches in the future. I still follow you to see updates like this one that reinforce the choice I made as the correct one and because you give good insight into the reworks and the reasons why many of them dont adress the real problems.

[amythistxue]

the only thing I can see this change doing is opening things up for more "highlight" plays at high level, I mean look at the examples they show, Gnar grabbing the fruit to heal enough to not die from Karthus ult, Jayce popping the flower to escape from Graves, Lee Sin using the vision to kill Nunu and steal dragon, all big "flashy" plays that can be shown off, not what it will probably be 99% of the time, where a jungler grabs the fruit to heal as they are moving to/from a gank, or people using the flower to check dragon without having to ward

the constant jungle changes, at least to me, just show that Riot is scared of the game becoming "stale" but at the same time not willing to do the big changes that would combat that, such as releasing champions that act as strong counters to others, so instead they change the jungle season after season, since you can't touch the lanes, hoping that somehow each new incarnation will not quickly be "solved" by skilled players finding the best routes and champions as has happened in every season so far

[TheMansterTruck]

idk if it's just me, but part of what I enjoy about jungle is the downtime I get to think things through. I like getting to rely on the optimal path so I can dedicate my thought the next way I can advance our win condition meaningfully. I'm not sure why that was identified as a negative about the role and I'm not sure why fixing it the way hearthstone has been "fixing" it's game is the right answer

[AzureKite]

Riot NEEDS to stop thinking that adding random stuff makes the game more "strategic". They did that shit with dragons and it's awful, they're doing it with plants and it's going to be awful. It's ok to let jungle be optimal. Everything else already is. It's ok for players to "speedrun" league, doing everything the most optimal way. *That is the whole point of even getting good at a game*.

[LunaticThinker]

I predict that people will completely hate these plants. You'll be chasing some dude and he'll be about to die but he'll eat some fruit and he will be ok.

Rito: how dare you learn your role? How about some rng?

Its started with the elemental dragons. Ranging from the powerful fire drake to the useless cloud drake

[SonicTheHedgehog]

i think the jungle is fine... i don't understand the change. like i heard the reasoning but its so odd

[SuperBlackatude]

If it changes the meta, or opens the game wide champ pool id be happy. Let there be 5 champs that are GOOD in every situation for every role and I'll be happy. No more boring seeing the same team comps with maybe one or two champs swapped in and out (for pro scene because it turns into the common picks for the game itself, almost everyone has to play what their favourite pro picked up)

[madonadog]

Now a top laner taking rift herald with his jungler can just take the honey plant afterwards and get back to lane on 3/4 hp or some shit. That sounds fun.

[DaVideoGameBeastr]

Riot spent many seasons removing randomness from the game and now they're bringing it back...

[ohmak]

adding the plants-I'm ok with this
taking away the mini buffs-RIOT WTF

[BlueEyesWhiteBoy]

I like jungle timers, especially the new ones that set up fights and smite battles at a 1:00 countdown. The fact that most people are secretly super okay with jungle timers at this point makes me feel like they will all secretly love the plants. You have to keep an open mind and realize that there are high elo staff who playtest the changes before hand for hundreds of hours before they are released, or even announced to the public, and will fight to the mat for its removal before the changes are released to the public (if they really are that bad). There are high diamond players working with Riot too that can veto vote down a lot of these changes that creative people come up with, and if you keep an open mind, you can absolutely come to positive conclusions over time for the changes that make it through Riot's brutal screen test team.

[hakubak]

I hope that the Honeyplant will only be able to be taken out of combat, so if people are dueling and they just get a free heal because they are closer (or even if it's just ranged vs melee) they don't get a free heal in the middle of it.

[sonicdueler]

"how dare you learn your role"
riot plz, stop it, im ok with some new junglers have gimmicks, but come on this is just making you play other games on top of the ones we already play, i have to learn the best path for the new champs, figure out where to go after i decide on a path heading to top lane and what random path i what to go to avoide shaco, i dont need more shit to worry about, i just want more ways that tank and support junglers can help the team

[DioGhark]

Awesome dude, this feature looks so interesting and flawlessly implemented into the game. Now someone like Nidalee, who is considerably hard to chase down, will be even hard to catch thanks to the red plant. Something like Karthus' ult will be nearly worthless thanks to those plants by the river. Blue plant looks pretty nice, actually. But ever heard of totem wards and pink wards? yeah.

[Ethereal]

tbh I think this is too much of a 'Spectator Sport' mechanic.