Sound for Video Session: ZOOM F8n Pro Setup & Menus, Q&A

In this week's Sound for Video Session, we take a closer look at the new ZOOM F8n Pro 32-bit float audio recorder. We'll cover the basic settings and walk through the menus. Then we answer your sound for video related questions.





Copyright 2022, Curtis Judd

Index
00:00 Start
3:20 Beginning of stream
5:05 Agenda
7:45 Zoom F8n Pro overview
43:50 Mic module upgrade vs. low-cut on mixer
46:07 Questions from the chat
1:12:45 Wrap-up
1:13:57 End of stream

[BasicFilmmaker]

Doh! Late. Glad we get to re-watch. :)

[AINUAEU]

Just got my Zoom F8n Pro, I really would like to thank you for your hard detailed work, best of luck brother,

[robert_starling]

When it comes to the impact of Zoom versus Sound Devices on job prospects, a similar scenario unfolded with the Steadicam brand in Los Angeles for many years. Before its acquisition by Tiffen, Steadicam equipment had garnered a rather dubious reputation. Additionally, Steadicam was, and remains, an "All In One Box" solution, whereas higher-tier brands offered a more modular approach, allowing operators to assemble top-of-the-line gear tailored to their specific requirements and budget.

[Jyotirmayshuva]

It looks like an entire course on F8n Pro FOR FREE!!! ..Just done with the Pre-order. Gonna have it in a week I guess.... I will rewatch the entire video afterward. Thank you so Much!!

[SamGossner]

Hey Curtis, thanks for putting this together! I always find your videos well produced and thoroughly informative.

First a quick question for you- I noticed in one of your videos, it looks like you're using Neutrik EMC connectors. Have you noticed a difference with them? I'm thinking about making the plunge.

A few thoughts/rambles about the video from an F6'er for anyone particularly bored:
- Yes, the F6 also shows the trim post-AD in the schematic as well. I too was concerned about this at first. My best guess is that the dynamic range of the dual-AD converter architecture is so big that an adjustable-gain preamp in this price range wouldn't perform any better (and probably wouldn't support digital control). In my testing, the F6's preamps perform about as well as most entry-to-mid level integrated preamps, right on par for its price.

(In any event, I'd always rather have digitally controlled preamps OR fixed/stepped-gain preamps over the nonsense that is analog-controlled preamps; I spent 30 minutes once putting white-out dots on my old H6's knobs where they ACTUALLY provided matched gain with a 1kHz drone feeding into them, the numbers were totally inaccurate)

- Yes, it's possible to clip the F6 (same rated max input +4 dBu). As you noted in your F3 video, this is indeed entirely based on mic sensitivity; I only noticed it once when clapping directly into a Rode NTG5 (which has an insane sensitivity of -23.5 dB re 1V/pa // 66mV @ 94 dBu SPL @ 1kHz). Using a less sensitive mic (most "studio" condenser mics are a solid 10-15 dB less sensitive than that) or inserting an inline pad into the signal chain (or using the pad on your mic if present) will fix the issue. I believe you can in theory calculate your max SPL simply by inverting the sensitivity, adding it to 94 (94 dBu = 1V/Pa), then adding the max dBu input rating (in this case 4). So, with a NTG5, we have a max SPL of 94 + 24 + 4 = 122 dB SPL. With a more sane condenser microphone that is more like 132-138 dB SPL, which is approaching or surpassing the max SPL of the circuitry or even capsules of many mics anyway. You can do the same calculation with the MixPre-II family or any other AD converter/interface/general audio hardware on the market.
(in any event, it is much better than the dreadful H3VR which seems to clip somewhere around 110-120 dB SPL!)

- Probably the +4 dBu max input sensitivity is part of why the F-series is more power efficient; voltage and current are the limiting factor in max I/O levels generally.

- Personally, I see the 32-bit Float argument more as one of workflow. It's the same as shooting RAW photos or video in a Log gamut: you use 32-bit float when you know you have time to go home, process your audio in digital form, and tweak it to perfection as needed, OR in situations where you are dealing with uncontrollable, changing, or unfamiliar situations and need room to adjust in post; no limiter, no effects, no processing; everything is done at home later with carefully-tweaked plugins/processors of your choosing. 24/16-bit of course makes more sense for a live situation; throw on a limiter/compressor, HP, whatever you need and bus it out to your streaming setup or whatnot.

- On that note, I've always seen Zoom's F-series as slightly conflicted. It tries to be both a live mixer and a portable recorder. I spent a good 15 minutes 're-programming' my F6 to cut out all the crud I don't need/use for my workflow and I assume everyone else does the same. I get why some companies go for the 'programs'/'apps' approach with their devices.

- Someone wondered if Zoom would make a bigger recorder... they do, it's called the L-20/L-20R, which can take/record 16 mics. The preamps I believe are the same as in the H-series though, and the gain controls are analog pots not digitally-controlled. Definitely looks/feels like a step backwards, but good luck finding 16 channels of mic pres and a recorder for $800 anywhere else.

- Any interference you noticed is most likely the dynamic mics you were using. Dynamics and ribbons are both much more sensitive to EMI compared to condensers since they have to have transformers in them, especially when you start goofing around with them in very low-noise, high-gain situations. I once (accidentally) measured the distance of lighting strikes when recording (indoors) during a storm with a ribbon mic into the F6: each strike would generate a small audible click via the transformer, then a time later the actual sound of the strike would reach the ribbon motor. Fun experiment to try and replicate at home!

- Lastly, I'd just like to note that you might get more statistically significant noise ratings on preamps if you use a less sensitive mic like dynamics or passive ribbons, or a 'fake' microphone (a 150-ohm resistor wired across the relevant pins). Most condensers' noise floors exceed that of most preamps, thanks to their higher sensitivity. Dynamics on the other hand have noise floors limited only by the impedance of their capsule, which is absurdly low (in the vicinity of -130 dBu or better), but their low sensitivity puts that point below the noise floor of most preamps. Long story short, dynamics will be much noisier with bad preamps than good ones, while a good, sensitive condenser, even a very low-noise one, will very, very rarely 'push' the noise floor of the preamp and thus should in theory perform well regardless of preamp quality. RaneNote 148, "Selecting Mic Preamps" is a good overview of this with some great charts.

P.S. I purchased my F6 a few years ago after watching your video and a long history with H-series recorders; it's one heck of an awesome little box even with the menu driving. I've used it on everything from dialogue to full orchestras, no joke. I can indeed set it up in seconds, press record, go manage cameras (or even perform) for 2 hours, then come back and press stop, and it works without an issue. Way less pain and suffering than dragging out a laptop and rack of audio gear when I only need 6 mics for something anyway, and the audio quality is perfectly serviceable even for professional work. Thanks again for your great videos!

[EricLikness]

1:00:30 - More important hiring a producer. I would choose that over any tool or gadget any day. Yes to that. At some point the business warrants the step up, because YT channels can be a "going concern", a thing, not just a sidelight or hobby. Two thumbs up on that, to keep the shows, pre-recorded or livestreamed going.

[berlinwallvideo]

Is it possible to connect the F8n Pro with the Atomos Ninja V plus AtomX Sync Module to sync Timecode?

[imark]

40:35 the 2A requirement is a maximum peak usage. So as long as the battery can supply at least 1A+ it should be fine unless you're using all features and inputs. I have not had any issue using a USB battery bank with a 12V 1.5 amp output and USB-C QC trigger cable + 5.5mm to Hirose connector, apart from it drawing so little power that the battery shuts off... Planning to add some RGB? lighting (to make it go faster of course) to offset minimum load. From some loose testing it draws about 300mA at idle or slightly under that which seems to be the cut off for my battery pack. I will also note that the stock power adapters 2A.

[jalexanderevans]

If I want to send two shotguns and two dji lavs to my f8n pro then output an auto mix to my camera’s xlr port, can I automatically sync the auto mix from the f8n pro with my camera? Or will I still need to do that in post since the lavs have a delay?

[just.decide_platforms.]

Hi.. I will tell you the set up that i has it and i need your help.. So their is a sound come from the stage and analog mixer and my f8 zoom recorder so how i can get the perfect set up to connect the audio from the analog mixer to my f8 zoom recorder and take it out to the cameras? I hope you help me and answer my question.. Thanks

[imark]

35:55 if the fader is set to zero DB it shouldn't be boosting or cutting so if you needed to turn down the output by X amount it would be simple subtraction from the mix output. I'm assuming this is the way the master fader works on the zoom I will have to double check that. Also curious about that slate mic feature so I've done a lot of reading in the manual.


I think they went post fader so it could be used as a sanity check as in it bypasses most settings so you should be getting an output to Test almost no matter what.

Edit: I just checked it defaults to zero DB. Which means if it was 4DB too high on the output device I could bring the fader down by that much to balance the level to a setpoint.

[laurentb.]

@Curtis Judd Audio : Hello.
Thank you again for this very interesting F8nPRO Q&A livestream. 😃
I just watched your review of the F3 where you say that the battery door does not seem durable. How is the battery door of the F8nPRO? Is it plastic or metal ? Does it Seem durable ? Thank you.

[thomaszamolo]

Thanks for the video and all the great and valuable information.
Little question: would the recorder be able to generate timecode to a Bmpcc directly or you need to go through a timecode sync device like the tentacle?

[SkyCoreLLC]

Just want to give a heads up on the new ZOOM F8N Pro. We loved our F8N and immediately picked the the new Pro with 32bit float and it is great EXCEPT for one HORRIFIC file destroying bug. If you use the bluetooth control to change the bit depth from 24 to 32bit or back to 24bit the recordings will be just noise, even though it sounds good in the headphones and appears to be working correctly. Probably a minor software bug but until fixed i would avoid using the bluethooth app altogether.

[IAmTheCraftsman]

Curtis I have a Mix Pre 6 1st Gen. It's currently up for sale on multiple platforms. I want to upgrade to the 2nd gen Mix Pre 6, but I see this Zoom F8n What do you recommend I do? Most of my gigs I get, the Mix Pre suffices, but I would like to get into a higher input count mixer with more features than the 1st Gen Mix Pre. Thanks for any advice you have!!

[PeterVanKeer]

In case I do a live stream for a client, is it recommended to send the main out/sub to the Atem and then pick the ATEM as the audio source in Vmix? Or connect the Zoom F8n pro and select that one as the audio input for Vmix?

[eloymonter]

Hey Curtis, What do you think about the lack of dual channel recording feature? What options are there to have a safety track? the 32 bit float is enough to compensate this function?

[jamescook]

Could you tell me what is better and easier to use than the Apollo x8... Thank you.

[przybylskipawel]

Thanks for your overview. I guess you are working on Zoom F8n Pro review. If you could cover exact internal signal flow. This digital gain worries me. Does the lack of analog gain (it was analog on F8n based on block diagram) could affect tonality? I heard that thanks to the 32-bit float limiters sound cleaner, but I don't use it and I really need clean soft portions of recording.

[cubul]

Was the first signal chain coming through a Sound Devices by any chance?