Commander X16 2023 update

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0:00-Fundraiser results
1:00-Production issues
6:34-Fake Yamaha Chips
10:41-The Case
11:43-Cartridges
14:12-New Software
15:56-Game Console Version
16:55-Q/A when, where, how much?
21:39-Q/A Gen-2
24:15-Q/A Famicom carts
25:25-Q/A Competitive gaming
27:35-Q/A Network adapter
29:52-Q/A coding on the system
32:19-Q/A use as music
33:15-Q/A HDMI
35:19-Q/A Why use SNES controllers?
37:41-Q/A Why not use Z80?
40:31-Q/A what happened to $50 computer?
41:31-Q/A Will it run Doom?

[pcsand]

I used to work in electronics manufacturing. We used a wave solder machine (rather than a dipper) and it was leaded solder, so lower temperatures... However, the wave soldering machine had a preheat, a flux foamer, an air blade (to clear excess flux) and then the solder wave. The boards were held on two sides with a fixture that had channels on them that the boards slid into. If you tried a fixture that clamped the board into a channel on each side, it should massively decrease your fixturing time. The boards we ran had snap-offs on the sides that slotted into the fixtures, so there weren't component clearance issues. If you want more information, feel free to reach out.

[anschelsc]

You can tell David used to work in tech support, because unlike a lot of designers he's very sensitive to the "if it's possible to do it wrong, the user will and will blame us" issues

[marklewus]

Before most of your viewers were born I was lead engineer for a company that did PCB assembly in New Jersey. We found that dip soldering did not work well with large boards due to warping, which not only leads the poor joint quality but greatly stresses the copper traces. We instead used a flow soldering approach where the solder is pumped over an edge, creating a flow wave across only one dimension of the board. As you move the board over that flow point, it gets completely soldered. This greatly reduces the tendency of the boards to warp and improves the solder joint quality.

[RicardoRamosRetrocomputacao]

Man I went through this many years ago, I almost did exactly that (buy all the machinery and produce it myself) my idea was to create a mini 486/pentium for the home user, at a low cost. I faced the same problems, and came to the conclusion that a SoC system is more viable, and that the real secret is a very well developed and accurate emulation software.

[willrsan]

I work for a contract electronics manufacturer. That you are trying to hand place SMT components is incomprehensible to me. Our pick and place machines can place 10's of thousands of components per hour. Then we have automated optical inspection machines to find errors like missing or misaligned components. Then there is automated testing of the assembled boards. I don't think you have realized the scale of the task you are trying to pull of.

[Sun-utgr]

Managing board flex/warp is a pain even for the most experienced enginerds. Main thing I’ve seen in wave solder fixtures is that they’re made of a high-temp black phenolic laminate material that doesn’t warp at high temps. They typically use clips made of the same material which are held down with springs and screws.

Hope you get it sorted soon cause you’ll be golden once you do!

[edminchau]

I've been working on a 3d first person game engine for the X16 for the last ten months or so. The hard part has turned out to be the map designer program, but it's coming along (please stop with the breaking changes though, please!) and I should have something to show in a month or two. It won't be Crysis, but it's definitely more than Wolfenstein.

I worked at a couple of PCB manufacturing plants in Calgary about 20 years ago, Sanmina and Interalia. Either one of these places could assemble a VERA or X16 board in a matter of minutes. The big Fuji pick and place machines I was running at Sanmina could place 40 thousand SMT parts per hour. You really ought to reconsider using a manufacturer rather than trying to set up a factory yourself, unless you're planning on also building boards for other people. It isn't just the machines that you need, it's also the conductive floor wax and ISO 9000 standards and antistatic smocks on everyone involved and a hundred other little things that make the difference between a product that's reliable and affordable and one that is not.

[iamdarkyoshi]

I work at a PCB assembly plant here in the states. Would be really cool to see the X16 take off to the point of mass production.

[BrandonBlume]

32:50 Man it'd be great to have a system with all the great chips (SN76489, AY-3-8910, SAA1099, OPL3, OPN2, OPM/OPP) all in one system and compose for them all by hardware. That's just great. Not to mention the VERA's PSG.

[Nicoya]

What you're missing in your soldering setup is a solder pallet, which you've kind of partially recreated. The pallet will hold the board flat, mask off areas that you don't want solder on (SMD areas, edge connectors, or unpopulated thru-holes that you don't want filled), hold down large THT components, and so on. Others have mentioned that wave soldering would cause less warping but since you already have the dip station it's probably worth doing your best to make it work rather than buying a whole new machine.

[OzRetrocomp]

That was a very interesting update. Thanks for being so open and upfront with where things are at. I get a sense that the Commander X16 has pivoted more towards gaming and away from general hobbyist computing, which is fair enough given the X16's capabilities and current development focus.

All the best for the X16's future, and congratulations for making it this far and pushing through all the challenges that have come up along the way.

[lelwani]

Honestly this makes me appreciate the production scale and efficiency of modern day computers so much more. So many things I never would've thought of on my own to into producing a computer.

[Vermilicious]

Oh boy, when I first saw hand-soldering I was honestly shocked, and just imagine what the cost would be then.

[BenHeckHacks]

As someone who has been doing this sort of thing for 20+ years, I'd strongly suggest fast-forwarding to the part where you sell these as kits. Let the end user do all that hyper-expensive PTH soldering and scrounge their own Yamaha chips.

[Wythaneye]

I want to send a pre-emptive THANK YOU to all of the early adopters who are itching to buy the first run boards at full price. Your contribution is going to help us all in the future.

[crowbarviking]

I wonder what kind of "logistics nightmare" was supposed to exist when handing it to a PCB assembler...
I work at a PCB assembler and the only "logistics nightmare" I am aware of right now is the scarcity of some parts.

We either buy the components ourselves according to the customers BOM, or the customer buys them and sends them to us...
That would also have removed the issue with the YAMAHA chip.. as an assembler i know which suppliers have real stock and which ones lie.
It is the nature of component "Brokers". They check inventory of smaller brokers, note what is available, do NOT update it frequently ...
So they do not know if the parts work, or even still exist.
That is why it is important to know your component brokers, so you can estimate if what they say can actually be true.

Same goes with the PCB...we either buy it ourselves or get it from the customer.

The only logistics nightmare i could imagine would be overseas transport after assembly.. which would require good packing, but that is not really a "nightmare".

[bernik]

This should have been done at a professional PCB assembly house!

If you find the right place they will do production runs as low as 50 boards. They have proper machines to automate everything and make the whole production run in 1 day.

[winstonsmith]

One of your original goals was to NOT use out of production parts. The fact that you didn't comply with that really came back to bite you.

[BrooklynWalker]

You’re determined. It’s interesting to see how you’re working on acquiring the tools used by other manufacturers. I won’t be buying one, because I actually have too many toys already, but I wish you the best of luck. Kudos to your patrons.

[kwinzman]

What were the issues with having it assembled by a PCB manufacturer?
What exactly were the logistical nightmares that you hinted at?
Please talk about this more than 30 seconds!