James White's High Calvinism

Dr. Leighton Flowers confronts another Dividing Line broadcast just put out by Dr. James White concerning Matthew 23:37 and the expression of God's desire for all to be saved...

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[peterbengtsson]

I was very happy when I left Buddhism for Christianity, to a grounded, clear message of Jesus and the Bible. Then it turned out to be all these disagreements among Christians. I don't blame God, but it's a sorrow that we have this diversity among us. Leighton, I like the fact that you are keeping calm and trying your best to keep it constructive. God bless you!

[chrismichellijr]

Thanks for what you do here, Dr. Flowers!

[Brandon.Germany]

I'm a Calvinist and I listen to White every week, but you are right, his Ad Hominems are terrible. Listening to you both side by side is very hard because you have such a calm and respectable demeanor.

[carrieahicks]

Dr. Flowers, you are so calm and respectful when James White is condescending, rude, and continuously saying false things about you. It is so hard to listen to him. Thank you for your tireless work in refuting the unbiblical teachings of Calvinism in an intelligent and cordial way.

[jobrown]

Leighton I really appreciate your honesty. Thank you.

[wpdaffue]

Has the time not perhaps come that we just accept that James White is in fact a thoroughly obnoxious character, regardless of the fact that he is also a Calvinist?

[ErictheCleric]

Shoutout to Robert Barclay the great Quaker Theologian "First we may call this doctrine(Calvinism) a novelty, seeing that for the first four hundred years after christ there is no mention of it. The first foundations for it were in the writings of Augustine, who, in his warring against Pelagius, let fall some expressions which some have unhappily picked up to the establishment of this error."

[kimsteel]

"I'm sorry God decreed your sadness...." 😆😆 Doc, don't ever change! Never stop roasting (St.) James (the) White! 👏👏😁😁

[JohnQPublic]

Dear Mr. White, Mindlessly misquoting Bible verses out of context *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Telling people they don’t understand Calvinism *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Rolling your eyes and haughtily dismissing people *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Calling someone a heretic *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Acting exasperated *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Ad hominem *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Straw-manning *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Gas-lighting *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, A Red-herring *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Condescension *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Snickering *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Demonizing your critic *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, Assuming you are infallible *ISN’T AN ARGUMENT!*
Dear Mr. White, *You’ll have to try harder!*
Dear Mr. White, *Do what you never do, drop all of the Vaudevillian schtick and actually address the issues being discussed with a modicum of intellectual honesty.*

.

[primeobjective]

Mocking is not a refutation, James White. Try again.

[justgopherit]

Dr. Flowers, I can not tell you enough how much your calm demeanor and love towards James White and others who speak against you means to me! It has to be extremely hard at times, and being that I find myself sometimes at my wits end with others discussing one of many different thing going on nowadays, you have been quite the brotherly role model in that regard. Not to mention it was that demeanor that also allowed me to listen to you for almost a year before becoming a convert 😉. Keep up the great work, and God bless you Dr. Flowers!

On a separate note, I always had difficulty listening to James White even when I was a Calvinist. Sadly, from the fact that many Calvinist's are very Biblically studious, it breeds arrogance... and I know this personally. I think White often argues with you personally simply because you've called him out, and in a very thorough manner, so his ego is bruised and he has to come against you in the ways that he does.

I loved the PIPIP (picture in picture in picture) lol

[janetdavis]

Not to mention, God did not kill Christ, He laid his own life down willingly, totally different from murder of people.

[primeobjective]

1:24:22 -- "If you are saying, that God intends, to save all people, and is trying to save all people EQUALLY, then yes, He's trying & He's failing."

What does James White do with 2 Chronicles 24:19? "He sent prophets to them, to bring them back to the LORD; and they testified against them, but they would not listen."

Based on White's statements above,

1) God FAILED, because the people "would not listen".

2) Sending prophets to "bring the people back to the LORD, " was NOT an intent by God to SAVE, therefore, God does NOT save "EQUALLY", therefore God did NOT fail.

Only the 2nd option is logically consistent. Therefore, Calvinism teaches 2 Chronicles 24:19 is NOT an intent by God to save, therefore making the text VOID and meaningless.

[a.k.]

For the critics, if you want the truth about the manuscript evidence you can find it. The evidence is a 100 times more reliable than say, Homer's Odyssey or Iliad. The transmission of the Bible and the science of textual criticism is a fascinating and very rewarding subject. If approached with intellectual honesty, even the skeptic will be hard pressed to impugn the veracity of the manuscript evidence.

[Weaton]

I very much appreciate every second of your valuable time to fight against the heresy of calvinism! This channel and Beyond the Fundamentals helped us sort it all out and heal. You see, we were in a Calvinist church, the only church my husband and I ever attended. We didn't even know that we were Calvinist. It was stealth mode. I believe it divides the body of Christ, incubates the most arrogant and prideful people, thwarts true evangelism and the true good news of the gospel, and is an attack on the very character of God. TULIP is cursed and it has many under its spell!! I pray Calvinists wake up and leave it! Keep fighting the good fight, Leighton & crew!!!

[mannycano]

Absolutely phenomenal in the way that you not only play back what James White has said but you also have the written transcript

[trailtrs]

I found in debating the head of the ACLU on TV years ago that most people do not debate with even the tiniest desire to understand what the other side is thinking or really saying. They are debating to firm up their base. Because of that they do not feel the need to operate by standard debating rules.

White does the same thing in his debates. His methodology is to stand up front of his followers and beat his chest, throwing stones of half-truths about his opponents view.

This, in my view, confirms what I’ve felt for 50 years about Calvinists. And that is that Calvinism often draws a certain personality type. Most Calvinists are authoritarians and act as if speaking down to everyone else.

[hughwanzakaffi]

Leighton, you rock! I love your logical approach and your considerate nature!

[Sirach]

When White doesn't have a point he just reads it in Greek.

[jesuslives]

1:46:27 "which means God has not changed their hearts"... Wow. Please make a short out of that clip right there. That's the most obvious example I've ever seen of a Calvinist adding their doctrine to the text where it doesn't exist. Wow.