Geothermal is Having a Moment, Can it Deliver? Ep179: Cindy Taff

Is the key to clean energy the heat beneath our feet? Could advances in the fossil-fuel extraction industry hold the key to providing 24/7 clean power? And can a Texan CEO and former oil exec bring geothermal to the masses?

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with Cindy Taff, a 35-year veteran of Shell, where she was Vice President of Unconventional Drilling, leading a team of 350 people with a budget of over $1 billion. Since leaving Shell, Cindy has made a bold pivot to the world of geothermal energy, and is now CEO of Sage Geosystems, where she is using her expertise in drilling, project management, and subsurface engineering to try to crack next generation geothermal energy.

Cindy shares her journey, from rising through the ranks at Shell to leading a startup on the cutting edge of the energy transition. She delves into the technical challenges of tapping into "hot, dry rock" geothermal resources, drilling at 20,000 feet below the Earth's surface, the regulatory hurdles of using techniques like fracking or 'stim drilling', and the potential to to use geothermal wells as an energy storage solution. Cindy has a unique perspective on how the oil and gas industry's toolbox can be repurposed to drive the clean energy transition, and believes geothermal is poised to play a crucial role in powering a sustainable future. Will she be proved right?

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Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
04:30 - Why Cindy Chose Geothermal
07:20 - Geothermal's Resurgence
11:20 - Geothermal for Energy Storage
14:39 - Fracking & Permits
18:20 - Earthquakes
21:35 - First Commercial Facility
27:40 - Geothermal Baseload Power
30:16 - Efficiency
35:00 - Well Depletion
39:04 - Better Mapping
45:00 - Deal with Meta
51:20 - Outro

[simonpannett]

Using Coal and Gas generators with Grid connections are an obvious target! Very exciting addition to Solar & Wind and even the future in so many areas!

[chrisconklin]

Thank you for this presentation. I am very enthusiastic about geothermal baseload. I have never thought of geothermal as a source for long term energy storage, which could solve some big problems. I live on the Florida Platform which is a 10, 000 foot thick slab of Carbonate (sea shell) rock, with the east side being thinner. Interested to see how hot the rocks are under the carbonate layer. Of course, in Florida finding cool rocks would also be useful.

[MLiebreich]

Great episode, well done Bry. Really speaks to 1) the proliferation of companies trying to crack the code on dispatchable renewable power in different ways; and 2) the accelerating exodus of talent from oil and gas to clean energy.

[OonaghClavel]

Fantastic episode! Good to know so many people from the oil and gas industry are looking for ways into cleaner parts of the economy. The more the merrier. ¡Viva la revolución verde!

[GregI-frpk]

Very good interview outlining a very exciting energy technology.
Enhanced Geothermal Electricity Generation technology has the potential to provide a major portion of electricity generation and industrial heat globally.
It is inherently superior to weather bases solutions such as solar and wind without the downsides of fossil fuel based solutions with low net system capital & operating costs, small footprint, flexibility of siting, inherent 24/7 availability, fast ramping & inherent grid services capabilities.
While the work being done by Sage looks impressive, companies such as Fervo Energy are even further advanced in their Enhanced Geothermal energy deployments with an existing operating facility feeding a Google Data Centre and a PPA committment for ~320MW plant supplying Southern California Edison by 2026.

[Zanderzan]

Interesting episode. The ideal would be a company comes along and can drill and produce baseload power, anywhere. However it seems to be the case that the geology of different regions is too variant. And therefore its hard to see how this can scale up in time. But worth a try.

[ianlighting]

Nice open conversation from an engaging expert in her field. Learnt some interesting stuff.

[mv]

Colorado has an ambitious geothermal program "The Heat Beneath Our Feet". Many connections to exiting companies and plans for pilot programs throughout the state.

[Delchursing]

I am much more hopeful about geothermal and this is a great educational resource. Curious approx cost for 2nd gen geothermal that can be deployed more widely in $/MW capacity.

[jasonb]

This interview and their website doesn´t explain how they capture both mechanical, from pressure, and heat energy from the wells. They need to simplify their story, very hard for someone with a non-technical background to understand their business case.

[Marko-qyeg]

Can you pulse geothermal?

Solar is really successful in California during the day but useless at night. Battery storage is expensive.

Geothermal problem is taking out too much heat and then having to replace the wells.

It seems plausible to send water down geothermal holes in the evening and reap the geothermal heat during the evening and night. If the heat is only removed 1/2 the time, only when costs are in your favor, then wells have time to return to their ambient temperature at that depth.

[innercynic]

geothernal is consistent as opposed to solar or wind which isn't. Plus you don't have giant towers killing birds or the mess of decommissioning the damn things when it comes time to retire them.

[Hackneysmith]

Geothermal going to eat coal's breakfast

[davidwilkie]

Apart from the systems already operating, and they have been doing so for such a long time without much expansion because of the many difficulties, then it's better to watch and wait for a proven new approach, much as it is for the other technologies like batteries etc to make a real Carbon free difference. Otherwise we will continue to think it is fossil fuel b-s propaganda until we're compelled to know differently.