My Most Interesting Judge Call Yet?!?

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My Most Interesting Judge Call Yet?!?

Fast effect is double speed Magic: The Gathering with commentary from ELD's Time Vault Games tournaments. Subscribe for daily videos and your chance to win a custom leather playmat when we reach 2500 subscribers.

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[DuncanHarbison]

It's the difference between letting your opponent play badly and knowingly letting your opponent break rules or do something illegally, this was useful thanks.

[Weeflerunner]

Thanks! My boys were playing the other night and the one was TRYING to get his brother to miss the upkeep trigger on summoners pact to win the game by burying it in the graveyard. This isn’t just unsportsmanlike, it would be a tournament DQ!

[sgjuxta]

This is a perfect example of why you should ALWAYS call a judge the moment you notice anything strange with the game state, whether you are the one making the mistake or not. Judges really are your friends, and they should absolutely be called anytime players have a disagreement or discrepancy over anything in-game.

[TheKingNaesala]

That's very neat! Thanks for sharing

[miaouew]

I think I know what you're saying, but also the "Pay 2 life" is the prerequisite for actually cycling the card. It's not like the cycling is free and you just lose 2 life when it cycles. So that probably has some bearing on this, too.

[jaywinner]

That IS interesting.
I find it terrifying that the difference between an accident and cheating is so slim. I could look at this and say the storm player made the same action 5 times improperly and to their advantage. THAT looks like cheating. Yet it's the player that kept proper track of life totals (with ill intent) that gets nabbed.

[WarioMCP]

There is a possible gray area to be kept aware of here. A player in this situation might say that they thought the life totals policy works like the missed triggers policy and therefore do not qualify for the two requirements for an action to be cheating. Namely, “The player must be aware that they are doing something illegal.”

However, the MTR clearly says that all players must be familiar with the rules in the MTR, so any ignorance in the player’s part can only be willful. Familiarity with the document necessarily means they must know what they are doing is wrong. If they claim ignorance on this too, they’re essentially admitting they are unfit to play in the tournament anyway.

This will not fool a seasoned judged, but I’ve seen players try any kind of reasoning to get out of a penalty. A judge does not need to be 100% sure or have concrete proof in order to disqualify someone. Being reasonably sure that the player is a threat to tournament integrity is enough, although any evidence or reasoning used will be helpful to the committee that determines if the disqualification requires further punishment.

[DKforever]

You could possibly say both players were attempting to cheat. The Cycle player for not updating their own life total after cycling street wraiths and the opp for not telling the Cycler to update their life total. A possible solution would have been to give both players a warning and then back up the game state to just before the 5th street wraith activation, when the Cycler was at 2 life, then let the game continue from there.

[binniwienie]

but how do you know the opponent was aware of the difference in life total during the cylcing? maybe he was just noting it down without noticing she wasnt updating her life total? How do you make that distinction?

[jareddoucette]

But how did you know that he intentionally didn’t correct the opponent life totals to gain an advantage?

[tomikvrona]

Did you investigate the other player for not marking down their own changes in life total?

[mcamp]

So they declared they purposely didn’t say anything but what if you arnt paying attention to what they are writing down just what you are and the. Be like they should of died? Is it still cheating even if u were not paying attention to their life pad

[avacyn]

Fascinating. But how do you prove an opponent's malintent? Surely they could also plead ignorance?

[TCHrulez]

so if they play street wraith and then i say you take 2 life and take note of it on my side and they do nothing its my fault? for their sloppiness and lack of caring. i dont think so boss

[BosSoxFan]

How is Abby not cheating? She broke a rule, she broke a rule to gain an advantage ( I would argue not losing life is an advantage), and the question then becomes did she do it intentionally.

To call the one keeping track of life and following the game state (expecting his opponent to the same) the cheater seems super suspect to me. Was Abby investigated at all in the judge call? What if this entire tournament/event she had been not tracking street wraith damage and winning games because of it. It seems wild to punish the player actually tracking the game state.

[justinstreet]

Nah this is crappy and bogus. I doubt the guy who was paying attention said "i saw their life total and ignored it to gain an advantage" so it's purely your speculation to their intent. You could easily speculate that the person playing the cycle deck knew they could win if they didn't deduct their life so they went for it. At the end of the day one person paid attention and one didn't and either could've been "cheating" with their intent. Not only is this not the right thing to do it sets a precedent for players to play messy and it's either their oppenent is able to notice no harm no foul or it's the opponents fault. That precedent is why competitive magic is unsportsmanlike and has so many sweaty unsociable dickweeds that try to take advantage of people.