Why Was The Kidnapper Fox Removed? | Lethal Company V60

Talking about the latest news on Lethal Company and its upcoming update, version 60, and why the Kidnapper Fox is being removed in the update.

Music used:
June - Bobby Richards
Gamela - E's Jammy Jams
The Order's Theme - Myuu

#LethalCompany

[Exxo]

I've been reading all the comments and appreciate the input!
I had no idea that the Fox would literally spawn kill like many of you are saying, I never experienced that or saw anyone mention it anywhere. Definitely seems like a bug / poor implementation and needs to be fixed.
Honestly they probably just shouldn't be able to spawn right away and instead spawn in the afternoon like everything else.

[Jackspladt]

My only problem with the kidnapper fox is the speed that they overrun moons at and how useless weed killer usually is

[Farawaykingdoms]

I've seen a single barber ever and was able to avoid it pretty easily.
But I hate the Kidnapper Fox. Its either buggy, but there is a chance that the shrouds can spawn *under* your ship. So now the fox just walks in and slaughters everyone and killing them is difficult cause stuns don't help a ton. I am honestly glad we are going to get a rework. At the very least giving us a safe zone around the ship for shrouds.

[quattrokerbecs]

The barber better keep its invisibility shtick, that's all I'm gonna say

[chickensky]

I do agree about Giants being unfair. Despite being absolutely massive, they feel oddly stealthy, especially on Foggy moons where they can usually see you far better than you can see them. The indication that you are being seen is probably your greatest weapon against them and that doesn't tell you what direction they're coming from or how close they are. They're one of the least interesting enemies mechanically too, they just run up to you and eat you if they see you.

I do hope the Kidnapper Fox's spawn frequencies are changed and they are removed from certain moons, if only because it makes the moons feel more distinct when they have more varied spawn rates from one another (and it gives you slightly more incentive to learn each moon and account for their threats). I like moons that 'feature' enemies, like Adamance having many Baboon Hawks and Rend having nearly twice the Nutcracker spawn rate as the next highest moon.

Also, Weed Killer should be buffed (or Vain Shroud spawn rates should be nerfed to reward you more for using it), it just doesn't feel worth going through the trouble of buying and using it. Unfortunately, the Kidnapper Fox has to be a major threat to make using Weed Killer worth it, and that just creates a vicious cycle, so I really hope Zeekerss can find the right balance. I don't hate the Kidnapper Fox as much as I hate Giants, I just wish this part of them was better implemented.

[elyadk]

The main thing a lot of us hate about the fox that content creators are failing to highlight is the fact that the vein shrouds spawn on top of the ship landing point. If the fox can’t spawn within a certain radius of the ship I guarantee you 90% of the people complaining won’t have anything to say anymore…

The fix is a lot simpler than a lot of people are making it out to be

[tiberiuskayn]

He should rework the Kidnapper Fox into something like the Smoker from Left 4 Dead. Make it so it gives you a split second or two to respond after you're caught before making you defenseless.

Maybe allow the player to frantically mash the WASD keys or spin their mouse for a split second to escape before forcing the player to drop all of their items. That can balance the fox during a solo run, and if you're caught without your team and have no weapon, you can still get out of the Fox's grip, potentially. Something like that, gamify the Fox's loop

[apolishrat]

i once had the vains spawn directly where the ship lands on art, which made it IMPOSIBLE to stay inside the ship for more than 2 secs without closed doors, cause i would land and the fox would in my ship a moment after, hit his tong with the shovel you say? well not if it kills me the secound he grabs me cause his nest is INSIDE THE SHIP!

[JTB-]

6:20 a very clear difference between the fox, and the dogs and ghost girl. Neither has a timer that tells them to enter the ship after a certain point. Both can be mechanically countered very easily. Not to mention ghost girl can flat out ignore the ship guy. And dogs can be avoided with a signal translator. "Just keep the door shut" is a bad argument when the dog disables your ability to shut the door when it grabs you (yes, it actually does). Giants can usually be mechanically countered, especially by a smart player with a flashbang. Jester timer resets if you leave the facility, so thats just an issue of communication. Not to mention you can absolutely juke the jester. Id know, ive done it. So tell me, what's the fox's counter mechanic? Weed killer? When more vain shrouds will just spawn anyway? A shovel? Good luck getting it when he grabs you and pulls you away. Flashbang? Same thing, but maybe if you're lucky. And man if his nest spawns on the ship, you're dead.

[soulsilver]

Suggestions for the fox: Vain shoruds. Should not. Spawn ontop of the ship. That is my single biggest gripe with them, the fact you can get screwed over so hard by him insta spawning the second you spawn on a moon, and potentially die if you jump off too close to him is super annoying. Not to mention how hard bringing loot back to the ship can be already, having a fox attack you while you're trying to get onto ship, and already being chased by a forest giant? No thanks. If it's anywhere else on the moon, heck even near main, at least you can find a way Around it, can't do that when he camps ship tho

[dimmas]

Why i hate kidnaper fox because its too hard to avoid than others on ship duty
Ghost girl - Dont turn around when you hear her
Eyeless dogs - Dont talk when you hear them
Kidnaper fox - Die

[huuminbloodborn]

On a more serious note now that i've watched the video, There are a few things that I dislike aobut the fox, and some of the problems listed by other people are valuable complaints.
The plants spawn even when there's no fox, making you worry about something not there.
The fox spawns IMMEDIATELY, even before your ship touches down, making it so that if anyone is AFK, on ship duty, or trying to get bees in danger because of it. Unlike the girl who you can basically ignore for the majority of the day and the eyeless dogs only spawn after like 1pm
It seems to either put plants ontop of your ship or halfway to the door and no inbetween. If the plants were just off to the side and slowly inched its way to your ship it'd be much better.

[jeremyfan]

I vividly remember one time we had just bought Rend after like 3 quotas. We land on the moon for the very first time and no joke, the ENTIRE mountain in front of the ship was nothing but vein shrouds. It also branched out to underneath our ship as well. It looked like the planet had been abandoned for 50 years and was left to overgrow weeds. Needless to say, we died and rage quit.

[NinjaGamerUltra]

3:19 jesters re-enter the box after a bit of nobody being inside

[kelsiel]

I'll have to contradict you here, the reason fox is hated so much isn't because it's new and no other mob is worse than it for the following reasons:

1. Once the shroud spreads, the fox will spawn camp your ship everytime preventing you from even starting to play essentially, destroying the shrouds doesn't matter because A it costs way too much money B the shrouds will still spread once you leave the moon.

2. Like you mentionned the fox can be dealt with but you either over estimate the average player or you under estimate yourself, Lethal Company is a chaotic game and that's why it is so fun, but chaos can cost you a lot especially when you're getting spawn camped.

3. You made a list of other mobs being in your opinion worse;
A, giants are very annoying but simply crouching around usually does the trick, you don't need to have a falshbang on you at all times to deal with it, in the right situation any mob can be impossible to deal with and the giant is no different, yes it can block your path, yes it'll most likely catch up to you and yes he'll one shot you but you aren't gonna get a giant EVERY time you launch a game right at your doorstep preventing from even leaving your ship.
B, the jester is a gimmick, extremely rare, stays inside and usually spawns pretty late, he his the anti-fox I'd argue, instead of preventing you from playing at the very start and outside, he stops you from the inside and near the end of the game, it's a fun gimmick because it is rare and you can still ignore it partially by simply putting your stuff at the front door and leaving.

[gnolex]

There's more to the temporary removal of Fox other than the hate. Some time ago a person decompiled code for Vain Shrouds and Fox's AI and found numerous bugs. The most egregious ones about Vain Shroud.

Vain Shrouds have a code where if you remove some of it, those removed bushes will still be gone the next day and won't contribute to further growth as the game remembers state of bushes. You can remove all Vain Shroud and they will stay removed and won't spread further on that moon. However, as soon as you leave that moon to Company Building or any other moon, all Vain Shrouds that were previously gone will completely respawn and will grow even more. So even if there was a meaningful way of removing Vain Shroud without wasting too much time, it's ultimately pointless because it will regrow back. This makes Fox encounters inevitable on longer runs.

Vain Shroud is not supposed to grow under the ship but it often does so anyway. It can get stuck and travel along with the Ship, like scrap, so you can sometimes see it on Gordion. And since Vain Shroud marks Fox's territory, this effectively lets the Fox attack and kill you near and in the ship, which is a death sentence.

[TheLittleCuteThing]

so kidnapper fox to "normal groups" is something you just have to run from since its a 100% death.

I have had multiple games where the whole party gets wiped on titan within the first minute of a game.
The giant is incomparable to the fox since it cannot remove you from the ship

Babboon hawks can keep their spawn rate if they get turned into something like a 2-3 hit kill.

[BigLadStudios]

I don't think it's fair to compare monsters that are confined to the facility to one that can kill you in two seconds of getting off the ship.

[cathygrandstaff]

For the barber a more interesting design might be to turn it into a bug with large scissor jaws and invisible camouflaged patches to make it very hard to see. Then again the current design kind of reminds me of the water wraith from Pikmin and how it’s mostly invisible except for its bike.

For the fox I think the weed killer should kill the vain shrouds with one spray instead of multiple and it should be infinite use (or used with a recharge at the charging station) instead of limited use. Either that or we should get flamethrowers as a way to destroy the vain shrouds quickly but the fire could damage us and attract enemies.

[andresaltamirano]

I dont think any issues in games should be solved by complete removal