The Hidden Problem with Seagull Guitars...

Seagull guitars are very playable, sound good and I like them, but that neck join makes a neck reset on any Godin acoustic guitar made after 2006 almost non viable (especially those under $1000), which is a shame for such beautiful guitars don't you think?
ALL guitars will eventually need a neck reset- be it 10, 20, or 30 years.

1- This isn't a problem until the guitar needs a neck reset which all guitars will eventually need, be it 10, 20 or 30 years.

2- Yes epoxy releases under heat, however, however there is no efficient way to heat the pocket enough to release said epoxy as the bottom of that pocket is over 1" away from the top of the fretboard. (It may be possible to heat the bottom of the pocket from the inside at the same time as the fingerboard extension?)...----- or just use a better more serviceable neck joint.

3- Another possible neck removal method for this neck joint joint COULD BE (im thinking out loud here) to drill through the fret slots into either side of the pocket (on say 15th, 17th 19th frets) and add heat- i'm not sure what heat would be best with epoxy- the dry heat of the wire cutters or steam- but if steam it would cause a mess to the finish and inside as all the steam water would roll either into the guitar or down the heel on the outside. The water can be caught inside but the finish getting damaged from so much steam would be a major concern. This would require alot more heat/steam then taking of a typical dovetail and I would expect some damage to occur. If anyone wants to send me a seagull, i can test that method!

4- If that fails, unglue the fingerboard extension, undo the two (10mm) bolts and saw through the block under the fingerboard (don't saw into the fingerboard though.) Then reset the neck as per usual.

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⏰ Timecodes ⏰
00:00 Sassy intro
2:05 First Problem
3:50 Second Problem
5:09 Third Problem
6:15 Forth Problem
7:03 A Solution
7:53 Fifth Problem
9:48 Sixth Problem
12:50 Back Track
15:47 Glue up
16:52 Back to where it should have been at the start

All sound samples are improvised and don't use any audio effects to enhance tone.

~ I never promote products I don't personally use or believe the quality therein.
This video is not sponsored and may contain product affiliate links which means if you buy something Beau will receive a small commission at no extra cost to you.

#luthier #guitarmaker #beauhannam

~ Luthier of luxury heirloom quality Guitars and Ukuleles ~

[danieleidet]

I’ve had a Seagull rustic mini jumbo for 15 years and I live it. It takes a beating and keeps on ticking and still sounds great.

[gunnar]

Coming from a Non luthiers perspective I play my seagull more than my Martin and my Taylor combined. It sounds and plays incredible and that’s the only thing that ever mattered to me

[drguitar]

I love it when I get a repair in that the owner and other shops have given up on. You have great persistance and patience (these attributes are needed for this line of work). Though the unseen part of the repair is not particularly pretty, the visible repair is and you have given the next repairman a fighting chance if other neck work needs to be done down the road. I recently removed and reset a dovetail neck joint that was epoxied on. It came out great, but it is always darkest before the dawn. Great video!

[bjfox]

Thank you so much for making this video. I had a Seagull entourage mini-jumbo that I played every day for 3 years. It was so playable and responsive (seems like that might be due to the lack of solid construction around the neck joint). All in all, it took the slightest of tumbles and the entire neck joint/shoulder collapsed in on itself. I had never seen a guitar literally implode on itself in the way that guitar did and it’s frustrated me ever since. You’ve revealed a lot of what seems like it was the root cause. Thank you!!

[amitnewton]

Thanks a ton, Beau!!!
You have solved a problem that has been plaguing me for more than a year.
I have an Art & Lutherie guitar - a 12-string - and for the life of me I could not understand what a block of wood was doing underneath the fretboard. It too is a bolt-on neck.
It was in because the heel was lifting and the action was high. But even after sticking it down, the action remained high, so a neck reset is needed.
Awrite then, where did my flush saw go???!!

[brandohhall]

Bro, i just found your videos and I cannot wait to go through all of your back catalog. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise. Incredible work, my friend.

[ArmandoVegaTV]

Interesting video... very informative. I can honestly say, I worked for Godin for 2 and 1/2 years (2019 - 2021) and never had any quality complaints. Our biggest issue was we couldn't keep them instock. I'm curious if the same construction is used on the Godin Acoustics and Art and Lutherie Acoustics? I walked away with 3 guitars (2 EG's and 1 AG) that I absolutely love. I also worked for Yamaha Guitars for over 15 years. So I love hearing this kind of deep level perspective on the repair side and learning how guitars do with age.

[TomboLP]

Just fantastic! Some great tips in here - especially the flaring of the neck block by a couple of grain lines. I don't do a lot of acoustic building at the moment, but will keep that in mind for the future.

I see your comments sometimes in one of the online groups and they're always useful and to the point. The only thing I wish is that there was some sort of way for casual visitors to tell who is an experienced luthier and who isn't. For every person like you giving good, solid ways to address repairs, there are a dozen keyboard warriors who have probably never done anything more than restringing. They're the ones saying things like "use epoxy" or "that broken headstock needs splines" (most don't, and, in some cases, splines make things worse) ... or any one of a thousand other pieces of terrible advice that they've either picked up from someone else ignorant online or even simply just made up.

Anyway, keep fighting the good fight. You are generous with your knowledge and do brilliant work!

[paulinmt]

I'm an original owner of a "Performer CW Cedar GT QII" from around 2006 that I love to play finger-style on. I hope it's not a ticking time-bomb. Thanks for the detailed analysis and repair vid. Cheers from Montana!

[TuckamoreDew]

This is sad news for me. I'm Canadian, and I've been happy that Seagull (and Godin more generally) have been able to carry on making decent guitars here in my own country when so much production has moved overseas. I have two Seagulls, a parlour made about a decade ago, and a very early one from 1989 that has been my workhorse since I got it second-hand in the late '90s. Both play well and sound good but I guess now I know which one's neck will be easier to repair if necessary. I hope the company adresses these issues in future manufacturing.

I'm glad you were able to bring this particular guitar back to life. Thanks for the informative video.

[PaisleyPatchouli]

Hi Beau,
I’m an expat Canuck - lifetime pro musician that has been living in the States for around 40 years, mostly in Manhattan, but recently retired to the Southwest. I’ve owned more than a dozen Godin guitars of just about every brand name and variation, (6th Ave, S&P, Seagull, A&L, parlors, folks, dreds, 12 strings, etc… and have loved them all; however the only one I currently have in my stable is their A&L Ami nylon parlor size cedar/cherry that I got used (for $90!) and which I electrified with a homemade K&K type passive 12mm piezo-dot system that sounds lovely. In recent years all my other acoustics have been upgraded to Waterloo model WL-K by Collings - a double 0 parlor type based on Gibson’s rare Kel Kroydon, a depression-era catalog guitar; while my other Waterloo, a model WL-S is a single 0, 12 fret slothead which is based upon the 1920s OS Stellas. Waterloos are truly out of this world guitars - in another league than the Godins, (pricewise as well) but the Godins still have their place, and as a sometime teacher I always recommend any variant of the Godin family, especially if found used at a good price.

I have an interesting (at least I think so) video on my channel of a mod that I was doing on Godin parlor guitars for my students and colleagues around 10 years ago; basically mounting a vintage 60s Danelectro lipstick pickup into the soundhole, getting vintage style magnetic (electric) tones that were very feedback resistant due to the small size and rigidity of the single 0. Check out that vid on my channel if it interests you at all. I was also offering a dual (stereo) system where I would install one of my homemade passive ’K&K style’ (multiple 12mm) piezo discs glued directly onto the bridge plate, and via dual 1/4” outputs (or even a 1/4” TRS) one could achieve incredible control over both a ‘raunchy blues to clean style’ single coil magnetic tone, and simultaneously a separately controlled, ultra transparent acoustic-piezo signal, and all in a very inexpensive, robust, and playable North American made instrument. (Often the whole package including the used guitar and all the parts and labor would be in the $600 range!)

I’m rather shocked that Robert Godin would allow such a poorly conceived ‘upgrade’ to his line of otherwise very well designed guitars. I can’t understand why he would stoop to this…
Thanks to your excellent video I will have to remember to avoid anything newer than 2006 in the future!
The only Godin product that is currently on my want list is their “thinline style” MultiOud fretless electric oud. I’ve been an oud player, off and on, for decades, and am intrigued with this instrument, but where I live it is virtually impossible to find an example that I can play in advance of purchase, and they aren’t exactly cheap instruments… I do come with a lot of expectations though, having owned and played numerous other styles of oud over the years. Do you know if they are using this same ’new style’ of neck mount on their post 2006 instruments? (I’m not even sure if they offered this oud pre 2006?)

Anyway, looking forward to viewing more of your vids!

[LucasRichardStephens]

Normand Boucher started as a window maker (I will relate my little anecdote, though I have no way of knowing if it is really true), he rented a Martin guitar for a short while, with the intention of seeing how it was made, with a view to having a go at building guitars himself. He dismantled the Martin in order to suss it out, then glued it all back together before returning the guitar. Not sure if he got away with it. I have an early all solid spruce Manik made by Norman (76 maybe), you would love the ingenious way the neck is bolted to the block, floating free of the top, really lovely sounding guitar. I had a visit from Dianne Cluck at one time (she plays a seagul guitar), her comment about my Manik was that it had the nicest bass E she had ever heard. I enjoyed your film very much and will check out the others on your channel, best wishes, Lucas.

[geesonnit]

I’ve had this model for about 6 or 7 years or so now! It’s a 2002 model.
I love it! It’s by far the best sounding acoustic I’ve played by a country mile! I’m so glad it’s not a later model. Thanks for your video!!
Kind Regards,
Gee

[tedcook]

Thanks Beau! Information like this will motivate me to keep going through the hassle of tuning down my guitars by several steps as much as possible for long periods- the advantage of having several other guitars to play! I had always wondered about the construction of these Godin family guitars- I am somewhat addicted to their cedar topped variants!

[WoodworkerDan]

Thank you for posting this. I used to do minor repair work for a music shop, and I worked on a very nice Seagull guitar that seemed to have a mind of its own. I would get it set up properly, only to have everything move days or weeks or months later. Here in Michigan things tend to move a bit with seasonal change, but this was extraordinary. After seeing your video, I think it might have been an issue with the neck joint. That would certainly explain what was happening.

[IIImobiusIII]

Have you ever looked into Stereotomy? The architectural practice of joining irregular wooden surfaces. It's a beautiful French tradition that made me wonder what Les Compagnons would have envisioned as a neck joint. What we have with most cheap guitars is architectural Brutalism. Look up Stereotomy, The Alchemy of Solids.

[timelwell]

Using epoxy glue on a guitar is crazy. Maybe Godin have been cutting corners in terms of quatlity control for a bit? A friend of mine has encountered exactly the same problem on a customer's Seagull, and he had one hell of a job to remove the neck in order to reset it. May I just say what a superb job you've done on this guitar - you deserve a medal..!

[edwardcampbell]

I have a 47 year old Yamaha acoustic and never had a problem with the neck. Plays beautifully, sounds amazing and stays in tune. Also have my first Seagull and absolutely love it.

[JoeR]

Back in the 90s, I used to go to my local guitar store and play the spruce top Seagull. I couldn't afford to buy it so I just went every week to visit it. 🙂

[peterflynn]

Thank you for sharing this very clear and detailed repair. I especially appreciated the way you included background doc from the Gore text.