Montreal is Making a Big Mistake | Blue Line Resignalling

Montreal is about to spend a ton of money on a huge project that will upgrade the Blue Metro Line, but not provide platform screen doors or automation, something Paris did 10 years ago for less money on the historic Line 1. Let's discuss.

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Ever wondered why your city's transit just doesn't seem quite up to snuff? RMTransit is here to answer that, and help you open your eyes to all of the different public transportation systems around the world!

Reece (the RM in RMTransit) is an urbanist and public transport critic residing in Toronto, Canada, with the goal of helping the world become more connected through metros, trams, buses, high-speed trains, and all other transport modes.

[MattiasGraham]

If you make a video in French with the thesis “Montreal is copying Toronto… and it shouldn’t” I genuinely believe you have a shot at changing the narrative here.

[ItsJustStevesWorld]

I hear you speaking about new lines, extended systems, platform screen doors, automated trains, increased frequency, and all the wonderful new things that places like Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto and the rest of the world are getting. Then I look at my hometown of Orlando. One commuter rail line that goes from where no one wants to go from to where no one wants to go to with ridiculously low frequency and no night or weekend service. And did I mention our gloriously lousy bus service? And then I start to cry. Florida: where urban planning and public transit goes to die. 😢
That being said, keep up the good work. At least I can see where someone is getting good transit. Because we never will. 🤬

[kerrizor]

I never considered the placement of columns as a _cost savings_ but you're not wrong! Now I'm thinking about Seattle's new LR stations... 🤔

[paulwilly]

Just wanted to add a bit of information:

- Platforms on the old stations would need to be reinforced to support PSDs. The new stations are supposed to be PSD ready, but I don’t understand why we don’t already install them at this point.
- The STM has confirmed that the old MR-73 cannot be retrofitted for CBTC and the blue line will exclusively be running Azur trains
- All the lines, except maybe the yellow line, already have some form of intrusion detection system in tunnels. I don’t remember if those systems are also enabled in station, but I suspect they are or that it could be included in the signalling upgrades
- The platforms at Saint-Michel can currently only accommodate 6 car trains, those platforms extensions were roughed in during its conception. I suspect that a significant portion of the projects funds will serve to tear down the walls and prepare that roughed in section of the station.
- Seeing how the line will only run Azur trains, which are CBTC ready and it already has an intrusion detection system, I guess the main reason why we’re not going with automation off the bat is because the STM wants to share the rolling stock between the orange and blue line, which means keeping driver cabs. I don’t think those cabs affect automation, but maybe they think it’s not worth it if it’s still there? idk.

[leobourbonnais]

Platform doors were planned on the Orange line before the pandemic by the STM, but it was canceled during the pandemic because there is no more money for new projects, and then they announce this!

[EnormousPurpleGarden]

"Come along with me as I get irrationally angry about trains" is one of the best video introductions I've ever heard.

[DanTheCaptain]

I’m just happy the Blue Line is finally getting it’s extension. And for the record I don’t think REM de L’Est isn’t dead just yet. I’m willing to bet that the proposal will surface again once REM gets going and people get used to its presence.

[canadian-bacon]

As someone who uses the STM and STL i am concerned about their wants to cut costs and cut back on services... Would also be nice if stoppages were less frequent, as if preventing that and deaths isnt a good reason to add the doors. When an accident occurs on a dangerous exit on a highway the exit was changed immediately yet many people can be hurt or die on the Metro tunnel without so much as a proposition to add barricades or doors.

[xouxoful]

Paris here, the M4 is being automated. It’s currently mixing classic and driverless trains. They spent a lot of time installing the PSDs. Every night the century old platforms were reinforced with concrete. Then they started with the screen doors, in a clever way : every night a new short section was installed in the same direction as the trains (avoids trapping someone against the first section) and fully functional on the morning. After few weeks, the whole platform was done, they would move to the next station etc.

[fuguwatt]

Fantastic video as always chief! I live in Budapest and we build a brand new, automated metro in 2014 and it got a tonne of criticism at the time for the initial cost but actually now the operating costs per passenger km are like half of even our busiest tram/streetcar/light rail lines because of driverless operation. Trains run at 90 second intervals in the peak periods, travel 2x faster than the aforementioned on-street lines, are fully air-conditioned, fully accessible and so "normal" now that nobody bats an eyelid. Unsurprisingly it's mostly French, Alstom tech. I don't know why more more systems aren't rolling this out. Keep up the good work!

[yaelgoueffon]

In Paris we also have line 4 (1908) that is getting its automation finished this year, another historic line that goes through a lot of touristic sites, and this was done with 256 millions € including the stations renovation. Also, the busy line 13 (1911) is planned to be automated by 2035... (It already has platform screen doors though). Not to mention that most of the automation was done at night while the line doesn't open... Tbh, I think that IDFM and RATP choice to automate those lines was at first made to face the strikes not so much to add some trains per hour. But we can clearly see a lack of ambition with Montréal not chosing to automate this line... Automated trains system are good ! Here in Rennes, France, line b of the metro opened in september 2022 and we now have two metro lines with a 99% regularity rate... For a city of only 215 000.

[crabit]

Timecodes:
0:00 - Why there is no platform screen doors?
05:20 - Why platform screen doors are good
09:17 - Paris has a platform screen doors
12:45 - How can you save money to install platform screen doors
13:00 - Plafrom screen doors

[enryfrafranci]

In turin italy they are extending the only line we currently have, the project includes 4 stations, changing the signaling system and 6 new trains and it's doing it for less than 300ml€, the line is already automatized, but clearly with the extra 200ml$ montreal is spending that shouldn't be a problem to implement . . .

[davidbutton]

The Montreal Metro is one of my favourites. I make a point of using it when I travel to Montreal, even if I don't need too. :)

[madcrowmaxwell]

The problem is that automating lines means that lots of people lose their jobs. Unions tend to (rightly) be annoyed at people who try to eliminate the jobs of their members.

[maosenlin]

When I first arrived at Montreal I was shocked to see that there's no train to the airport, that the metro platforms don't have screen doors, that the metros and buses are so infrequent, that not all metro stations have accessibility elevators. After I stayed here for a few months I still don't understand why there are so few suburban trains. I just took those things for granted. The lack of public transit literally took my freedom away.

[ketch_up]

One reason they may not be able to add ATC right now is the company that supplied the skytrain ATC has stopped offering the current version of this product and the replacement isn't ready yet. If you're skytrain maybe you're willing to order trains with an atc system that doesn't exist yet, but I can see why Montreal wouldn't.

[KGB]

I've lived in Montreal my entire life. And, I'm older than that Montreal metro system! I like your ideas. But, never underestimate Montreal's ability to step over dollars to pick up pennies! And, never forget Montreal's deep love of kick backs! There is a reason why we paid for 5x the amount of concrete actually used to build the Olympic Stadium!

[lorangers.dans.les.nuages]

I am a big fan of the Montréal metro and the STM, so it pains me to say this: I agree with everything you said in this video. Although I might understand why platform screen doors aren't installed on the blue line since the MR-73 trains are still good to go for perhaps 10 more years. Nevertheless, the STM is able to (and should) do better. I think that their projects are good, but there is often this feeling of not doing things all the way. I blame the lack of money, but sensible choices are still needed.

[mina_en_suiza]

Very interesting points you're making. I never thought of platform screen doors as cost savers, maybe because here in Switzerland (and in Germany) they are virtually non-existent.
I always thought, it would be nice to have them because then, you could close overground metro stations with windows and protect waiting passengers from cold winds in winter.