Live Discussion with Carlos Xavier on John 1

Post-Debate Dialogue with Christian Unitarian, Carlos Xavier, and Biblical Binitarian, Mario Shepard

Jewish Scholar, Daniel Boyarin:
Harvard Theological Review:
The Gospel of the Memra: Jewish Binitarianism and the Prologue to John

[BiblicalBinitarian]

Begins if full at 9:30. My apologies for the issue with the first slide.

[austinwyatt]

Really enjoyed watching this. Great job bro. You may be new to debating but I sure can’t tell it! Proud of you 👏🏼

[LoveAndLibertyChannel]

Good discussion. Good points made by both gentlemen. The best part about this discussion is the spirit of both men. That is refreshing. Two men that differ on the ontological nature of the Messiah (a matter that is not clearly described in the Bible) but who consider each other a brother because both believe that Jesus is the Messiah and Son of God.

[bravetab]

Hi Mr. Shepard, thank you for sharing this very insightful video. I did not think that there was any serious discourse against the concept of the trinity until I have across your videos.

I was wondering sir if you have ever looked into Islam and it's claims about Jesus and the Oneness of God?

[keithfuson]

An image and form in Scripture is always a creature

[thehumanjesus]

Mario, around the 47:00 mark p, in response to my point about not confusing grammatical vs biological gender, you said your “Binitarian rule of thumb is when it’s a neuter translate it as a neuter.” But unfortunately this is doing exactly what you say you’re trying not to do, I.e, , confuse grammatical gender with biological gender.
For example, the Greek for “child” (teknon) is neuter grammatically. If we were to follow your “Binitarian rule of thumb” we would say the child is an “it.” Now I know you’re not really suggesting that!
But that’s where your “Binitarian rule of thumb” would lead.

[keithfuson]

Question: in your doctrine are God and His Son consubstantial and the same Being, or are they two distinct Beings? To mantain monotheism wouldnt they have to be consubstantial and the very same God ?

[eternalhopelive]

What I appreciate about non-Trinitarian dialogues is that they often reflect both the Spirit of God and a spirit of reason. In contrast, Trinitarian discussions frequently seem clouded with confusion. Ironically, the strongest argument I’ve encountered from Trinitarians is simply labeling others as heretics. Showing the pagan roots of the movement.

[keithfuson]

Right. So in jn20:17 contextuallly the Father is my God. So in jn 20:28 my God is the Father, not Jesus. Accept the context here and in the NT. Only the Father is my God and our God. Truth is consistent.

[keithfuson]

The Word(Son) is with the God, the Father. Two persons are with one another

[keithfuson]

My God in the NT is always the Father. The Son is never called my God. When Thomas saw the risen Lord he was in shock and overcome with emotion and he blurted out, my Lord = Jesus, and my God = the Father. There are five ways to interpret jn20:28. Jesus taught Thomas for 3 years that the only God in heaven was the heavenly Father. When Thomas says: my God he is referring to the Father. Jesus never taught his apostles that he was God or my God. The trinitarian claim here is false.

[keithfuson]

Gn19:24 Are there two Yahwehs? No. The Yahweh in heaven is God the Father and the Yahweh in representation on earth is a messenger.

[keithfuson]

In Jn1:1 the best translation is: and the Word was toward the God, and a goD was the Word. The God and a goD are two distinct beings.

[keithfuson]

Not one passage you bring up says the Son is eternal..All of these truths are true of the immortal Son who is at the right hand of his God.

[keithfuson]

In jn1 and 1Jn1 there clearly are two persons who are with one another. It is not an idea with God.

[jarminius]

An "eternal God" simply can not die. Therefore your Jesus could not have died on the cross.

[keithfuson]

The absolute God is not a relative goD. The Father is not the Son..The Son is not the Supreme Deity. Yet the Son is a goD, that is, a placer and subjector with Gods authority.

[jarminius]

Two eternal Gods = two Gods by "nature and essence" which is no longer monotheism. Arians even taught that Jesus had a beginning. You stand alone in your teaching in all of history.

[keithfuson]

Wjy dont you just turn to the bible and read it. Im fastef than a computer.

[keithfuson]

Yet the Son and the Father are not the same eternal spirit. The son is begotten, he has a God, God gives the son his life, the son is out of God, the son is the begjnning of Gods creation, the son is the firstborn of every creature. So the son is a creature. If a creature is called goD, that doesnt mean he is eternal.