How I'd design the Vietnamese in AOE4

Howdy folks, got a low-key video for you today, going over my civ concept for the Vietnamese (which I recently reworked). Though small, the Dai Viet empire has staved off invasions from multiple world superpowers including the Mongols and the Chinese - and I think it'd be the perfect civ to introduce traps/mines to AOE4!

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Sections:
0:00 Intro
3:36 Concept Overview
21:59 Units
37:26 Landmarks
46:51 Conclusion

[ConMan]

Every time this guy makes a civ concept I want it

[sonnytag]

Vietnamese here. Thank you so so much for providing our civ's concept in AOE4. One thing I would love to share with you, is that AOE defined one of our generation of gaming history (e.g. we grew up with cs1.6 and aoe1, like Halo and COD in the west) so most of us would probably are very excited if Relic decided to implement Vietnamese to the game. You can ask about your Vietnamese friend for proof (ask him if he knows about `AOE mũ xanh mũ đỏ`). Here are some of my thoughts, hope you find some time to read:
- I love your idea of supporting the existence of our civ, especially using Dai Viet as our governing monarchy, as it happened around 1000~1500, which we fought the Mongols at that time, and the Mongol is already in the game
- 3:30 yes, I can guarantee you there are at least 1 Vietnamese person listening to your videos :')
- 5:26 you should also added that hideouts are not allow to upgrade to fortify hideouts
- 6:45 do you mean this works kinda like Nydus Worm in SC2, but limited by number of garrisons (5 in your video). If so, I believe a timer should be added (just like the Nydus Worm) for units to enter/exit, otherwise people will cheese it
- 9:35 in this period, particularly the Tran dynasty (the one fighting the Mongols), our army are formed using royal guards (cấm quân) and local/regional conscription. My idea is maybe change this to something reflecting this, as the one you proposed don't reflect much about this idea (and man-at-arms should be replaced by royal guard as we are heavily influenced by China)
- 16:39 The 4x4 limit might be a bit harsh
- 19:52 Probably one of the most recognizable tunneling system you might be talking about is the Củ Chi tunnel, but at this time I'm not sure we used tunneling for guerilla warfare, instead we used scored earth with hit and run tactics (e.g. relocating to the jungles etc)
- I'm not that knowledgeable about the military stuff in medieval times, so I don't have any inputs, but some of your references might be a romanticized version of our armies, and not reflecting real life, especially those drawings
- 34:40 yes, they are called 'vườn không nhà trống`, we were "drilled" in our time in schools that this is the one of the core strategy our army used when defending our nations
- 37:34 excellent landmark choice, but the effects don't have anything related to the structure itself
- 38:39 I'm not sure what historical monuments you are referencing here
- 39:31 while I totally agree with your option here (`Hoàng thành Thăng Long`), should an offensive building like a keep be used for economical reasons ? maybe a town center or like French's guild hall if keeping the effects ? or I think the effects need to be changed
- 39:55 effects don't have anything related to the structure itself
- 40:55 while we did use elephants, war elephants are not that common in our history, maybe another new effects, and I'm not sure which historical monuments you are referencing here
- 43:40 the guy you are talking about is Hồ Nguyên Trừng, but I believe this should be used at most as a military tech, as gunpowder and guns are not that common in Dai Viet era
- here are some famous buildings I hope you should really consider adding for landmarks:
+ Temple of Literature, acts like an uni with unique tech/effects
+ Hue Imperial City, acts like a keep with something unique
+ Hung Temple, acts like a monastery, replacing Resistance Headquarter (we have a national holiday for this), effects can be the same
- 48:20 nice artwork, but the weapons they are holding might be a bit too complicated for that time

Love to see your guides in the future on other civs like the English one you did.

[xuansonle]

I am Vietnamese and I would like to give you feedback on reference materials.
- at 39:29. That gate is called Doan Mon, but except for the walls and doorways, the upper floor is no longer the original architecture, it is just a baseless and careless version built in the 20th century. it does not represent ancient Vietnamese architecture
- Most of the architecture you refer to was restored during the Nguyen Dynasty, which was the most architecturally degraded dynasty in Vietnamese history in both scale and artistry and only reflects Vietnamese architecture in Vietnam less than 200 years ago.
I think you should also refer to the architecture of the most brilliant dynasties of Vietnam such as: Ly - Tran dynasty, Le dynasty architecture to have a more comprehensive view of ancient Vietnamese architecture.
Thank you.

[Hesperian]

Great concept as always Chilly. I think it would be cool if:
a) infantry could build the hideouts and traps like Delhi can build walls but maybe at a higher cost? and
b) if you could move the hideouts and traps like Mongols can move their buildings. I think being able to always keep your opponent guessing is key for this civ otherwise scouts and outposts would not only counter things but so much so that the defenses would be come obsolete in a way. Compare this to the Malians stealth ability which is only really that useful because you can move your stalth units around. Just my thought on it though

[toangomo]

Regarding the Elite Palace Elephant, the Vietnamese Tay Son Army famously used this force. Place the cannon on the elephant's back to move and fight like a tank. Soldiers on elephant backs also use bombs to throw them below.

During the battle of Ngoc Hoi Dong Da (You can find it on Wikipedia).
Tay Son's elephant artillery force was an important factor in breaching the Qing Dynasty's fortresses. In just one night, the Vietnamese wiped out 20-40 thousand Qing troops stationed here. Forced all Qing troops in Vietnam to retreat in chaos. The Tay Son army is famous for its "blitzkrieg" tactics. Coordinated attacks, surprises and quick attacks at multiple points with elephant artillery, arquebusier and light infantry. Crush the defensive fortifications and block all communication between the enemy armies. Somehow your imagination has almost accurately reflected a quite powerful force of the Vietnamese military. Even though you haven't found any evidence about it.
Thank you for sharing your ideas

[atNguyen-kyzo]

Wow you did your research so good with our history, good job Chilly

[Diahborne]

Thank you for the big 50 mins Vietnamese Civ Concept!

[quanglinhcnf]

Interesting concept. Let's see how Relic works in the project

[jaytoh]

As an southeast asian, i feel immersely proud to have a soutbeast asian civ being represented, cheers from Singapore with some Vietnamese blood haha, cheers, Thanks!

[bo-ronguyen]

We do have a heavy cavalry from Trịnh, but the horse was taken out by the french until they all replace by normal workhorse.

[Whynamehim]

I think a landmark that allows infantry units to build traps and/or outposts like compound of the defender would make the gameplay feel really smooth.

[Kameeho]

Aaah, I see you know your SEA facts well! Or at the very least, read my reddit thread. Lol!

Which prevents me from rating your concept anything but 11/10.


But in all honesty, yes the concept is super great, the whole assymetric focus on this Civ is make some meta-breaking gameplay for sure!


I would absolutely love playing the Dai Viet, and while I am more biased towards Khmer and obv. Thai, i did infact put my vote on Dai Viet, simply because I am a massive fan of this style of combat, and its obvious Meme material potential.
"WELCOME TO THE RICE FIELDS <insert profane word about mothers and procreation>"
When the opponent triggers a trap you placed among your food econ.


Your elephant idea is great, i cant remember which design i incorporated the worker elephants on, i think it was Khmer, but i would love if not only did they function as resource drop off point, but also be able to construct buildings at much greater speed, and perhaps with a later upgrade, garrison 3 vills simply for protection and providing your Conscription aura. (Which i would personally call Rally Aura instead, but your name makes sence also).
Because the fact you gotta sacrefise villager build time can be quite punishing.

Alternativly have them able to work as Wood workers on steroids which vills can also deliver wood to, which would synergize better with their wood intense eco and help a bit on their farm transition. (I.e 1 worker elephant = 3 vills on wood, with added bonus of shortening down the distance for vills to deliver)

I also dont think the penetration effect on the arquebusiers would be OP.
Its can be countered simply by using spread formation.
As long as it just damages 1 adjesceny unit in a straight line rather than entire row and perhaps 50% of the damage.

Great way of punishing blobbing and knight-spams.

As always, great video!
I think another reason why Dai Viet is popular is because Age of Empires is HUGE in vietnam, especially AoE1 for some reason, and then ofc AoE2.

Also you have a proper middle aged man sneeze right there! (You sound like a completely different person when sneezing lol!)

[huwg]

I'm Vietnamese and I really admire your spirit, it's so admirable. But you need to pay attention between dynasties. Our evolutionary tree can start from the Ngo Quyen Dynasty (10th century), to the Tran Dynasty (13th century), to the Later - Le Dynasty (15th century) and the Renaissance Le Dynasty (17th century). You should also note that our troops do not use conical hats. If you have any questions about costumes, just ask me. Thanks a lot.

[jeffgodoy]

The Le dynasty is a perfect timeline for AOE4.

[tavish]

I love the hideout idea, I think the garrison space should increase for each age, such as 5/10/20/40. I know it looks like a lot, but I also think it's balaced out by the counterplay, that is to break the influence somewhere to stop the reinforcements. Rework Guerrilla Warfare to units gain 3 attacks of poison damage after leaving a garrison. I don't like Conscription as it heavily encourages dark age tower rushing. You could potentially also replace the Crossbowman with a spearthrower (Skirmisher) that works much like the Malian spearthrower, although that would leave the civilization vulnerable to heavy units.

[ronanko]

Could you please do "Kingdom of Mrauk U" aka "Arakanese Empire" civ concept.

[Trubripes]

You could set rally point to a hideout in the late game and bound un-garrison to rapid fire (mouse button) to spit out reinforcements anywhere.
just like Nydus !
Also good thing they don't have ele from stable, imagine someone tunneling 5 elephants into enemy base for terrible terrible damage.

[raynightshade]

Aww i miss the elephant unit you had for them being able to put different units in them for different rolls

[JukeboxOddities]

Can you design a 6 Minute guide to japanese? Would love to watch❤

[huwg]

Each of our dynasties has its own set of armor. For the Ngo Quyen period, refer to the Tang Dynasty armor, for the Tran Dynasty, refer to the Song Dynasty armor, for the later Le Dynasty, refer to the early Ming Dynasty armor, for the Le Trinh (Le Renaissance) period, refer to the armor adjacent to the late Ming period. However, it's not 100% Chinese armor