End of the Sidereal-Tropical Zodiac Debate in Vedic Astrology - Ernst Wilhelm Debunked

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This video lays out the clear historical inaccuracies and unfounded claims from Ernst' Wilhelm's " Mystery of the Zodiac" to show that no such mystery in fact exists outside of his own paper.

SCHOLARLY REFERENCES FOR FURTHER READING:

THE INTERACTIONS OF ANCIENT ASTRAL SCIENCE:
Current research and definitions of interactions between astrological cultures.

ASTRONOMICAL PAPYRI FROM OXYRHYNCHUS:
Groundbreaking research on sidereal usage on papyri from Egypt/Hellenistic times well past Ptolemy's times.

FORUM DISCUSSION:
A basic refutal of the basis of Wilhelm's theory.

MARTIN GANSTEN:
Basic overview of the history from a real scholar-practitioner:

FOSS RESEARCH:
Real peer reviewed research on sidereal astrology using straight Vedic methods:

PTOLEMY'S TETRABIBLOS:
Chapter 4 is referenced in the video lecture showing Ptolemy giving astrological usage of sidereal signs.

NICK KOLLERSTROM: THE STAR ZODIAC OF ANTIQUITY:
Proving sidereal horoscopes prominently used in western tradition using math.

PRECISION INDIA PRIOR TO 1200:
Albeit a eurocentric work by PIngree, does provide evidence of knowledge of precession between at least 200 to 500AD in India.

THE ORIGINALITY OF INDIAN MATHEMATICAL ASTRONOMY:
More details and mathematical analysis of ancient Indian methods.

NICK KOLLERSTROM: ON THE MEASUREMENT OF CELESTIAL LONGITUDE IN ANTIQUITY:
Article showing sidereal coordinates in Egyptian, Babylonian,Greek,etc. systems.

FORUM DISCUSSION:
People showing the gross inaccuracies in Vic DiCara's erroneous historical views.

FORUM DISCUSSION:
A long discussion on sidereal versus tropical.

[TheDarshanProject]

*** For those of you watching this video, please note these are not my opinions being expressed, but a summary of the current scholarly understanding of the historical record. Please look at source material before forming your own opinions on any of this:
THE INTERACTIONS OF ANCIENT ASTRAL SCIENCE:
Current research and definitions of interactions between astrological cultures.

ASTRONOMICAL PAPYRI FROM OXYRHYNCHUS:
Groundbreaking research on sidereal usage on papyri from Egypt/Hellenistic times well past Ptolemy's times.

FORUM DISCUSSION:
A basic refutal of the basis of Wilhelm's theory.

MARTIN GANSTEN:
Basic overview of the history from a real scholar-practitioner:

FOSS RESEARCH:
Real peer reviewed research on sidereal astrology using straight Vedic methods:

PTOLEMY'S TETRABIBLOS:
Chapter 4 is referenced in the video lecture showing Ptolemy giving astrological usage of sidereal signs.

NICK KOLLERSTROM: THE STAR ZODIAC OF ANTIQUITY:
Proving sidereal horoscopes prominently used in western tradition using math.

PRECISION INDIA PRIOR TO 1200:
Albeit a eurocentric work by PIngree, does provide evidence of knowledge of precession between at least 200 to 500AD in India.

THE ORIGINALITY OF INDIAN MATHEMATICAL ASTRONOMY:
More details and mathematical analysis of ancient Indian methods.

NICK KOLLERSTROM: ON THE MEASUREMENT OF CELESTIAL LONGITUDE IN ANTIQUITY:
Article showing sidereal coordinates in Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, etc. systems.

FORUM DISCUSSION:
People showing the gross inaccuracies in Vic DiCara's erroneous historical views.

FORUM DISCUSSION:
A long discussion on sidereal versus tropical.

[sacredvedicastrology]

all I know is learning sidereal astrology changed my life, the accuracy is so strongly there

[TheDarshanProject]

*For the record, someone deleted a post and subsequent lengthy discussion asking why I don't debate Vic - well I made an offer to him to come on my channel for a debate, and he refused to do it since I wanted to do it live. He put all these weird rules of trading off pre-recorded videos and didn't want to have an in-person open discussion about the topic.

Another commenter on that thread also shared some e-mail exchanges between Vic and Ernst where they basically shut down around these topics when put to the test on similar material as presented in this video. Feel free to get in touch if you want to see what kind of "debate" ensues when pressed to answer to this information.

[TheQueenIsWithin]

As much as I swear by vedic astrology Ernst birth chart calculator works for me.

[noboy]

So if sidereal is “accurate” why do my tropical placements perfectly accurate to my personality, characteristics, feelings and most of all physiological appearance are accurate to my tropical chart vs the sidereal? What do you do in this case where your sidereal chart does not accurately describe the person that you are after 30+ years?
Wouldn’t you say rather then trusting the scholars and “academics” to instead trust you feeling and intuition..

[HowtorockAstrology]

Thanks for contributing to the conversation, Darshan Project :) I am a Tropical Vedic Astrologer, and I appreciate you expressing your reasoning. I am recently going to be putting videos of my own out about the "Tropical Rashi Camp's Perspective."

I find that often this debate gets hairy in the details of things. The Surya Siddhanta argument here could basically go either way. The argument that those old cultures around 0 AD to 500 AD or so being mostly sidereal is a moot point, because thats when the constellation Asvini did meetup with the Sun's Tropical position at the The Vernal Equinox. So yes, many people were blending the themes of Rashi Aries with the themes of Nakshatra Asvini, or for another more common example, blending Magha with Leo. But that might have been true then, but is not true now - Because the Vernal Equinix now occurs when the Sun is in the nakshatra of Uttara Bhadraphada. Aries does not inherently contain the essence of Asvini; nor vice versa. People at that time were also using Tropical charts, as they were the same chart. Only till about 1000 yrs later or so would the Tropical coordinates be noticeably off, and that the bridge between Tropical and Sidereal became obvious

Ernst's article isn't perfect, as its like more than 12 yrs old now, I believe? His article was meant to raise questions about things that "Sidereal-Rashi" astrologers take for granted, and it this has sent ripples throughout the astrology world.

Maybe we can do an online interview some time? Let me if you're interested mate, i think we could make a good show of it.

[mytube]

Let's start a project to re discover astrology from the beginning. At the end of the day it's all about the truth. Anyone interested?

[babajaiy]

Only listened up to about 12 min. Don't know if you eventually get to that point. But there would have been a period in history when Sidereal would have been the same as Tropical. So during that period of history it would be irrelevant as to which system was used since they would have been the same.

[psychiceye]

No need for so much tension, if you can predict event to day like Ernst does, then your system is good else it's nothing more than noise

[AgrippaPetronius]

Compelling presentation worth a to weigh up and consider ....right and wrong has zero interest and yet what a fantastic debate

[RatVsar]

Sir, which node do you prefer while analysis of chart?...true or mean node for rahu ketu ?

[ExaminerCross]

I have a question: What is tropical zodiac measuring, even if unintentionally doing so?
To measure data of a fixed point is still measuring something. What will we see in the records when Aries returns to that original point? Is there an Indian term or practice for reckoning to this fixed point?

It's got to be some kind of useable data, I'm just not sure what it would be.

[drsuyashtalks]

And Ernst still continues to be widely popular and is often interviewed by sidereal astrologers for his insight. Many of these sidereal guys have many more subscribers than Ernst, still they listen to the man with patient hearing like a disciple . That's cuz both of these people know that astrology is an ocean and they are just students. They re humble, have mutual respect for each other..

In India, it's said- vidya dadati vinayam.. real knowledge makes u humble.

Though some sidereal guys act as if Ernst has personally harmed them and is vengeful like a bad loser. They act threatened. Talking with smirks on face and snorting while talking about Ernst🤣. Really childish behaviour by some including you.
Seems there is only one 'truth' seeker out there, you...eh?

Follow what you think is correct.. Let people choose what they want. Why become so hateful. The whole video, it's subtitle, the way you talk, is condescending Ernst or anyone who folows him. Btw many sidereal guys follow him🤔Ofcourse Ernst should not waste his time trying to prove his theories to everyone or anyone.

[mattias]

I think that if you want to debunk this very clear and specific scholar maybe you should bother to show as some legible signs... at least. Not saying that you are wrong, but it doesn´t help your cause that we can´t read them.

[mobiusdesigns]

I had no issue with the audio. I’m confused as to why there even is a debate. With astronomy can’t we just look up at the current position of the planets, track the procession of the equinox’s, correlate the results with the astrological cultures whose texts we are reading to know what the condition of the sky was when they were around. ? All this other stuff seems unnecessary and as fallacious as quoting the Bible when justifying a belief: e.g. this books said this, which I interpret as this, which some other guys thought was like this, which was translated like this. Etc etc ad Absurdum.

[nik]

A bit off tangent but what is wrong with using True Sidereal? You've heard of the Mastering The Zodiac channel right?

[iswaraenricochiarucci]

Be happy with your sideral zodiac men! Ernst is simply a genius of astrologer, Vargas "get alive" when you follow his teachings

[abhinavkumar]

Instead of focusing your attention on 'Debunking Ernst' it would be wiser for you to improve accuracy with sidereal system (which fails terribly).

[comment]

I doubt you’ll redo this one, but boosting your audio in the future would be helpful. It’s a strain without headphones.

[realghostofdreams]

this video needs a redo. You could be right but it's hard to follow because the quality in the audio and the visuals is poor. Having the links, though, is super helpful and much appreciated for someone wanting to dig deeper on the subject. Thanks for that!