P.A.F. Pickup Secrets: Start Wire and P.A.F. Tone

In this video Jon Gundry of ThroBak Electronics tests the affect the P.A.F. pickup start wire has on guitar tone and microphonics. An A/B pickup shootout gives a live comparison.

The pickup coil start lead is one of the details used to authenticate a vintage P.A.F.. Jon Gundry explains the history of this obscure detail of P.A.F. pickups and how and why it may affect vintage P.A.F. pickup tone and microphonic qualities. Photos and video of start lead placement and vintage P.A.F. winding machine fixtures illustrate reasons for its variation in the P.A.F. pickup era.

To demonstrate the tonal differences between a P.A.F. pickup with internal start wires and a Patent number pickup with external start wires, Jon Gundry winds two pickups on ThroBak's vintage 1957 Leesona 102B pickup winder. Both test pickups are wound with same number of turns and constructed identically with long Alnico 2 magnets to assure that any tonal variation is due to the different methods of connecting the pickup coil start leads.

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Chapter Headings:
0:00 Intro
0:07 P.A.F. start wire - the secret to P.A.F. tone?
0:35 What is the start wire
2:09 Purpose of an internal start wire
4:50 Effect of the internal start wire on the pickup
6:19 Pickup Comparison: Internal start wire vs. External start wire
7:13 Closeup of internal start wire
9:09 Wire building up around the internal start wire
10:22 Hump on the coil from the internal start wire
11:34 Winding a coil with an external start wire
14:35 Closeup of coil with external start wire
15:12 Assembling the two pickups
16:11 The two finished pickups
17:34 Test to see which pickup is more microphonic
17:56 Internal start wire pickup - microphonic test
19:01 External start wire test - microphonic test
21:40 A/B testing pickups in a guitar
22:45 Thoughts on the differences
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[jeffreybranco]

I have always wanted to learn about pickups in this depth. To see them being made and them hearing the finished product is over the top cool. I can absolutely hear a difference. The external pickup has a darker sound. The internal is airy and true to a vintage PAF sound. An awesome video I am hooked. Please keep them coming.

[peteflynnPAF]

The internal lead sounds more open. I think you have found yet another meaningful detail. Great job!

[aryeheast]

That difference is absolutely crazy. I'm usually skeptical of things like this, but that was a huge difference even on low quality work computer speakers. Thank you very much for the information.

[TheChadPad]

You're fucking right! Simply through the buzzing alone, you can hear a difference. If it's different sounding in that way, it must be different sounding in general, because the circuit affects all of that. Great experiment you've done! Thank you for this. As a guitarist, people like you give me the opportunity to capture my music in the way it needs to be. Kudos and cheers!

[StevenParente]

I heard a difference. It was subtle, but I really liked the internal lead pickup. It sounded more open and had a clarity to it. Both sounded good. Great video!

[josephlodwick]

Yes Sir the PAF sounded warmer and creamy, The other was brighter .. Excellent job !!!

[picksalot]

Fascinating video. The tone differences became noticeable when you tapped on the Pickups with the Pick. What I heard in the sound samples was that the Pickup with the internal lead sounded a little clearer and more dynamic. The external lead Pickup sounded a little warmer and compressed.

Thanks for taking the time to make the Pickups and demonstrate the differences. 👍 It's clear that the internal lead has a real effect on the winding distribution. I preferred the Pickup with the internal lead. 😎

[paulcarver]

Internal wire has a more vintage hollow body guitar sound and the external is more the rocker style with a definite treble...they both sound great ...awesome work sir....

[svajesz]

I was a little skeptical at first, but on the test with guitar I really heard the difference. It's amazing!
Thank you for the video!

[myvintagesunburst]

a slight difference is still a difference . if you're going to go the distance to recreate a PAF, you must go the whole way . thanks for investing the time to make a great product . details such as these set your PAFs apart, reinforcing again 'you get what you pay for'.

[michaelwallace]

I am in awe of your setup. Literally green with envy. I used an old ceiling fan motor and a Penn fishing reel with a track wind, to build pickups. Believe it or not, the ceiling fan motor is drag sensitive and provides an almost perfect tension when you get the right speed. Starts and stops are no where near accurate though. I've wound a pair of p 90's I can't stop playing. I have an arbor press as well, which I actually bought for pressing frets. Anyway, loved the video. Very interesting concept and worthy of experimentation.

[mickizzo]

Definitely a noticeable difference. Great video & great pickups. It’s comforting to know there’s someone further around the tone chasing bend than I am.

[Darkvibration]

There is clearly a difference. The PAF sounds better to my ear. Great video. Thank you!

[SeemoreDunkan]

15:58 Good tip Jon :) In all seriousness thank you SO MUCH for teaching us these things. Please do more videos like this and play a bit more in the comparisons.

[kevinshackleford]

Definitely a difference between the two. Nice video man. Very cool.

[keithblair]

Jon I can definitely hear a difference in the two. The PAF setup has a overall smoother tone. It's most notably on the high and lows. Am I hearing a more, for lack of a better word, hollower tone on the PAF wired pickup? I feel like I am. It's so slight in the grand scheme of things, but I can sense it. Both sound great though. I would imagine the difference would be more prominent in a more driven amp.
You are truly a gifted craftsman. As a fulltime musician, I tend to, believe it or not lol, am able to pick up the slightest nuances in pickups. I have a gold Dot 335 that is begging me for a set of ThroBaks. But money can be funny sometimes when you play for a living. But one day you'll get the call I promise. Watching your videos, there's nobody else I'd rather buy pickups from. Keep it up, we'll keep watching!

[guyr.c.]

When your tapping your hearing the pickup as a mic would, but once in the guitar I still detect a subtle difference between the two. I think that this experiment along with the others you've done helps to illustrate your point that a pickups tonal quality is due to a highly complex set of variables in materials and methods.

As a Luthier and guitarist I really appreciate your work as it helps those of us working at the tone wood end of things better inform musicians hunting that elusive sound in their heads, and with application help realize it for them

[jcsk]

Microphonics are what I like the most when I listen to vintage PAF´s. And I love it. For me the microphonics pickups are what brings most of that middy "3d" that sounds amazing.

[michor]

There's quite a noticable difference. Great video!

[markseres]

Jon thanks so much for what you've put into this. The A2 would be part of the result also I'm feeling. Whatever, you've demonstrated something significant for sure. Airiness is a great term to use for a PAF and I think you've really given us some insight here. Looks like the only way I'll find out is to order a set from you, the sooner the better. Thanks again. Best regards from Western Australia..