Ranking Ancient War Games Rules!

Carl and Austin discuss some of the ancient rulesets used by Mark's Game Room! Got a preferred rule set that we didn't cover here? Did you try some of these and have your own thoughts? Let us know in the comments!

Here's sites where you can obtain the rules:

DBA / Triumph:

Warhammer Ancient Battles:

To the Strongest!

L'Art de Guerre

Age of Hannibal

Swordpoint

00:00 Intro
02:30 DBA / Triumph
04:20 Warhammer Ancient Battles
06:08 To the Strongest!
07:40 L'Art de Guerre
09:33 Age of Hannibal
13:00 Swordpoint Preview

[gregalbert]

Please do more rules comparisons like this for other period. This was a very enjoyable, entertaining, and truly informative video. One I think I will refer to over and over again.

Yeah, can the music. I want to hear the words. It doesn’t add much atmosphere.

[michamalinowski]

DBA- my first wargaming love. :) A very elegant system, and in my opinion gives a good feel with very few rules. A great entry point for all ancient games, as a ton of them use the basing convention started by DBA. So if somebody would be interested in ancient wargaming- I would say start with DBA have a feel for it, and if you don't feel this ruleset is for you you when looking for other sets like Impetus you already have a good chunk of your army ready.

[Weptak]

I found that Mortem et Gloriam is a nice rule for me.

[PatGilliland]

Great overview!

If you are going to parse through the Barkerese of DBA, I must recommend the orphan child of the DBx family - DBMM. Think of it as Advanced DBA - very much the same rules with more flavour/chrome. The key point for me is that when it is played at the 100 point level, you'll get roughly the same unit count as DBA - 12 bases, but with a better representation on the table of an actual ancients battle - Going from memory 9 Roman Legionary bases will face off against 15-20ish hairy barbarian bases making flank protection much more important and prototypical than DBA.

Definitely going to check out Age of Hannibal though.

[christebo]

I'm not sure what the criteria is for what was chosen here to review?

You've got Warhammer Ancients, which, as far as I know, has almost zero support?

Obviously, you are going to show what you prefer, I would too.

I would suggest your criteria is lacking on some other subjective attributes.

Are the rules currently supported and either bought new or available for download?

The first criteria should be scope/unit representation. Skirmish, small unit, single or multibasing per unit. Abstraction level, small combat to huge battles.

Time to resolution, 1 hour or less, several hours (evening) or full day slog.

Play balance. Is it possible to win with an underdog army given the right circumstances or will Macedonians, Romans, Mongols, etc. usually win?

Set armies, scenarios, or list building?

Player base. Are others playing the rules or are many abandoning?

Complexity. Everything from combat resolution, number of troop types, number of reference charts, unit formations or none, etc.

Some other rules currently supported but not mentioned (complexity: Low, Medium, High. Scope: Skirmish, Semi Skirmish, Multibase units, Abstract/Single stand/multi figures)

Lion Rampant (Low, Semi)
Mortem Et Gloriam (High, Multibase)
Warmaster Ancients (Medium, Multibase)
Clash of Spears (Medium, Semi Skirmish)

There are other rules sets that have waned but are still decently supported and available

Impetus
Might of Arms (free download)
DBMM
Tactica II
Armati II
Warrior Rules

[Burzuj]

If you haven't tried these rules yet, I strongly recommend Midgard by James Morris. Here's how it stacks up to the criteria:

1. Geometry of ancient battles: battle lines are definitely encouraged, there are defensive bonuses for supporting units to the side or rear, so keeping a battle line together is the main concern. Infantry don't have many options for maneuver.

2. Heroics: definitely present here. Each hero has a number of "mighty deeds" each turn, which can be used to reroll command tests, contribute dice to combat, etc. also, single combats are possible. Generally, acting heroically will bolster morale, being cowardly will demoralize your army, as will losing your heroes.

3. Units "feel" historical: this game does not have set army lists. Rather, you create lists by taking a basic unit profile and customize it with better/worse armour, special rules, etc. The author's intent is that players choose a setting and build armies that are balanced within that setting. So if you and your opponent want to play Romans vs Gauls, you can absolutely customize the lists so that they feel right to you.

Also, the game has a great mechanic called "reputation", which represents the morale of your force. This deteriorates over time, but you can also use your heroes to bump it back up. Once you're out of reputation, you lose the game.

[bradleyelliott]

I'm surprised Mortem et Glorium wasn't mentioned, after the longest time our gaming group played Warrior but when we found MeG its been an absolute blast, it has a massive number of unique army lists per region and time period, it has its own map generator, army list creator and campaign system. It most definitely supports armies sticking together in linear warfare with bonuses to movement, support in combat and flanking. The generals play a key role by issuing orders to the units via command tokens as well as participating in the combat itself when committed at their risk. The units are all tailor made with a huge list of universal weapons, special rules and formation types that each cost the a points value in the army list creator so it has an internal balance between very different armies and time periods, but the army composition is what make them unique so the actual organization and tactics are encouraged there. I couldn't recommend it enough because its been so fun building all sorts of different and fun armies to play against each other which they make easy by having three different sizes of warfare with their small, medium, and large scale battles that can make it cheap to start playing while being able to grow it into a big army. while we play at 15mm they definitely support 25-8mm or 6mm gaming with it as long as the base widths are the same

[christophermontgomery]

I was hoping for a Strength and Honour mention. Great video!

[panthros]

I have played most and I feel like most people can get real defensive on wargames ( or what is their wargame) but I can share some thoughts since I have played most of these. I keep coming back to DBA 3 with its simplicity, no need for more than 12 units per side and its overall improvement from DBA 2.2. It is likely one of the easiest on the list to get someone to learn and play rather quickly. From time to time I will play BBDBA 3 if I am looking for a larger more strategic battle that can still be ran quickly. Think DBA 3 but with 3 armies a side instead of 1 in DBA. If you want larger battles, you want to play competitively and have a little background in DBA, then DBMM or Art de la Guerre is really the only choices in this scenario. You can look to Historicon or Britcon as example of the competitive scene. I love the unique gameplay mechanics and strategy in To the Strongest. This might be the one I wish I played more as I have so much fun when I play. To the Strongest might be the only wargame that really brings new and refreshing ways to play. I love the cards mechanic (instead of dice) and the grids, it brings a whole new level of strategic play. I just need to get more people to play it lol! Triumph is just a tweaked version of DBA 2.2 and I don't think really brings enough new to the game to be even in the list. From a historic perspective, you really need more units on the field if you are trying to create scenarios that could replicate specific battles, so BBDBA, DBMM, To the Strongest or Art de la Guerre . You also need to think about what games are out now and supported by the publishers. WAB IMHO does not belong on the list. It bring up Hail Caesar and its expansions into different periods if you want to discuss WAB. Swordpoint is just a streamlined Hail Caesar but nobody seems to play it. I am surprised you do not have SAGA 2 in the list with all of the eras, no needing a lot of figures but I have found it does not replicate historical accuracy for me. Saga games are always fun though. The boards make the armies interesting and different. TooFatLardies is on my list to learn as I have heard goods things about it. If people want to learn wargames but not paint miniatures, I tell people about Commands and Colors (blocks with stickers) that can recreate historical battles well, inexpensive to get into and covers historical, medieval or gun powder eras.

[keneckhardt]

Impetus. I think it’s very underrated. Probably not too big on the heroics but that’s not a big deal for me.

[wylde_hunter]

Good post. Rule One is good but Rule Two - Heroics is NOT a criteria for me, I prefer realism. Also, I like games where you give orders and your units may or may not obey them. Because of the inluence of Warhammer most modern wargames are skirmish whereas I like the feel of being a general commanding an army of thousands. You can probably tell that I grew up with Donald Featherstone and Wargames Research Group

[ericfarrington]

Not to be that guy, but point #1 is really up in the air. Recent scholarship points to the idea that Ancient warfare is not as linear as Carl seems to prefer. Instead, there is a lot of debate about nodes rather than battle lines, and the battles were more mobile than previously thought. The truth is, we really don't know as the ancients seemed to take it for granted.

At the end of day, no one really knows exactly how ancient battles played out. However, Battle Line games do have a strong Point-of-View of how ancient battles worked. That is the most important thing for a wargame to have in my book. The designer needs to have a Point-of-view on how Ancient battle worked, and then back it up with the game mechanics.

[get_the_lead_out]

Give Warmaster Ancients a try - it is a much better game than Warhammer Ancients. WHA is basically a skirmish game while WMA zooms out to the army level. Heroics aren’t very well represented in WMA, but keeping units in line & brigades up is a must. Plus, the different abilities of each unit, as well as the number and type of units available to each army give WMA a lot of flavor.

[thekrausecollectionmmmin]

Btw, I appreciate the effort you guys all put into this production. I am trying these out and working through them. Two the strongest is next

[thepaintingfish]

I’m a triumph! guy myself, but I also enjoy age of Hannibal. I’ve heard good things about Saga for a skirmish level ancients game

[greggaminger]

To the Strongest is Excellent. I started sceptical, end up sold - does everything an ancients game needs to. Yeah for some not getting to throw dice is a loss, but it's actually really fun slapping out the cards one after the other in close combat.

[scottjenks]

I’ve played To The Strongest in 6mm and really enjoyed it. At first you are skeptical of the grid, but it works really well and you don’t miss measuring. The 2 army books give you almost any ancient or medieval army you could imagine from Asia Europe and Africa. The card activation is a little awkward on the table and shuffling, I’d like to try chits instead.

[davidstell]

Sword and Spear are very well worth a look too.

[redmist]

Now this was unexpected video...but greatly enjoyable one! Love the reviews and the elephant simulations too...nice touch. I've only played three Ancients rule systems, first off was DBA, an excellent introductory to ancient gaming and small figure count. Next was "Might of Arms" from Bob Bryant. I find these to be an excellent set which uses DBA basing. I don't feel it has the Heroic flavor, but well worth a look and game play. I believe you can get them for free now. If interested, I can send you the link. And finally, from Too Fat Lardies, "Infamy, Infamy". These definitely have met all of your criteria and then some. You'll definitely get the feel as a Roman player and the barbarians. It's different systems for each army and works well...a definite look and play. Again, great video. Take care.

[BearGrisham]

I would be interested to hear what your club would think about the ruleset Mortem et Gloriam! Thanks for another great video 👍