Revolutionary Breakthrough: Boeing's Transonic Wing in Partnership with NASA!

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The last time Boeing set about to create an aircraft concept, the result was something called the Model 367-80. This aircraft led directly to Boeing’s KC-135 tanker and the 707, the aircraft that quite literally shaped commercial aviation for over half a century. Is Boeing’s next concept about to do the same for the 21st century? And, is there some controversy around it?
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode.

Sources

[SueBobChicVid]

Your advert was interrupted by a YT advert. Advertising Inception.

[andrewday]

Let’s hope aircraft designers and engineers finally get to lead the company’s vision again

[SteelSkin]

If the commercial aircraft industry as a whole eventually moves to those wider wingspans, airport gates might have to change rather than forcing every single airliner to ship with foldable wings. It'll be fascinating to see how this goes down.

[NickHorvath]

The folding section actually only needs to be 8m because, presumably, both wings would fold. Still not small, but much more manageable.

[tessasisson]

In 1955 I flew on a BA Boeing 707 from London to Paris. I was 14 at the time and the crew were so sweet to me, it was by far the best experience of my young life.

[StevePemberton]

The original Boeing 367-80 shown at the beginning of the video 0:05 is on display at the Smithsonian annex at Washington Dulles airport. Only one was built. Known more commonly by its nickname the Dash 80, as Mentour mentioned it was the prototype for the KC-135 aerial tanker and the Boeing 707 jet airliner.

When you see the Dash 80 in person it's surprising how small it is. The Dash 80 fuselage was 11 feet wide, which would have allowed for five seats per row. After seeing the prototype the Air Force liked the design but wanted it wider for the tanker, so the KC-135 was built with a 12 foot wide fuselage.

But then as Boeing began working on the passenger version they found out that the Douglas DC-8 would have six seats per row, and airlines were leaning towards the DC-8 because of this. Boeing had to add four more inches to the 707 fuselage width to accommodate six seats per row. So even though the KC-135 and 707 look identical, the 707 is actually four inches wider

[outermarker]

Between engine and aero design trends, I can't believe were headed forward back to 'open prop/biplanes' aesthetics - 2050 style of course.
But then, we used to cross the Atlantic in 3 hours on a futuristic looking high alt/mach jet too, but went 'back' to higher tech efficiency at lower pure performance

[stevegiboney]

My dad was involved in building the wood mock up of the -80. He worked on all models as a mechanic through the 747, 757, and 767.

[StevePemberton]

At 0:13 you can see the noise suppression pipes at the back of the 707's engines. You can get a better view of the pipes at 2:58. Noise suppressors were installed on early jetliners and were comprised of several exhaust pipes arranged in a circle. Early models had 21 pipes per engine, comprised of 10 large pipes in an outer ring, 10 smaller pipes in an inner ring, and a center pipe. Later designs had 8 large pipes with a flower-style center exhaust pipe. As engines got quieter the noise suppressors were no longer needed. You can get a glimpse of some pipes through an early type of thrust reverser at 3:36. Then another brief look 4:34.

Another interesting thing to notice is the tiny air intake above the 707 engine at 4:25. This air intake is for the cabin air pressurization system. Behind the air intake is a small turbo compressor. This was supplemental to the cabin pressurization provided by the engine bleed air. They only had the turbo compressors on two or three of the four engines.

[MaximumBooger]

One of the requirements NASA has for funding projects like this is that the information learned is released to the public.

[chrisamies]

I'd also want to mention Hurel-Dubois, whose research into long, high aspect-ratio braced wings must have influenced the SugarVOLT concept and so this. It saw the light of day in a few planes such as the Shorts Skyvan and its descendants. And I don't count it as a biplane; the truss is an integral, angled element of the main wing.

[spencermelillo]

Another reason for these struts is to help passively prevent dynamically unstable flutter of the wings. It’s definitely one of the biggest reasons for these struts!

[briankaitschuck]

I never put Boeing down or out of the picture. In every business we have well crooks only wanting to help themselves. It's a growing pain that always is around.
But a company that has built air planes and more isn't just going to go down without a fight.
So thank you sir for bringing this information to us.

[razy]

The problem of wingspan will not be so much in the current configuration of departure gates and boarding bridges, which is of course solvable by folding them (although folding 8 meters on each side will still be a challenge...), but primarily in the field of certification of airports themselves, where the wingspan is one of the essential parameters for determining the category of the airport, or determining the critical type of aircraft, i.e. the largest type that can be operated at a given airport. And this can become a major problem for regional airports that are now certified in category 3C and 4C.

[musiqtee]

Re 16:23 and public financial involvement; You are Swedish (I’m Norwegian - no, not the carrier…😅), so we have (or had?) a culture for transparent governmental involvement in business, an industrial policy. Well, every government have economic policies, but during the last 30+ years we’ve told each other that politics should not interfere with anything “private”.

This is a very strange narrative, also for an American or European person - or person speaking for a company. We’ve even legislated bans on subsidies, but in reality politics are hugely involved in both finance (2008, 2020) and industry (military, welfare, civil order). To me, this narrative just points to the lack of transparency - of course politics and business are connected. Some would argue those are more connected than people themselves are to economic policies.

We know that huge leaps in technology and innovation have happened when public and private interests are pooled, not split. NASA, the internet (arpa-net) and the transistor itself are huge examples, all American. We should honour developments for sustainable airliners, but stop telling biased stories about the role or threat of governments in all of this.

After all, a central bank can put new money into our economy, they do all the time for financial growth. So sure, our biggest companies are part of this, when they buy or release state bonds in dollars or euros. We just need to fix the transparency issues, so that we make good choices - also for better aeronautical tech.

Thanks for very exciting insights! 👍

[russellblake]

Another good video.
"canoe-less" wings ... like B707 and like Gulfstream planes, wings without canoes have restricted the flap deployment with the flap track constrained to the wing envelop. This is sort like your explanation (the canoe fairings fit inside the wing) but emphasizes the engineering trade-off. If you want ugly canoes, look at the Canadair (oops Bombardier) Challenger.

I appreciate you're speaking to an audience, but aspect ratio is only one parameter in designing a wing. Thickness is a significant parameter in defining the transonic speed (refer the difference between a Hurricane and a Spitfire). Wing profile has a significant role in subsonic drag rise, refer Whitcombe sections vs earlier NACA sections. A huge consideration is wing volume, where with "wet wings" we gain a hugely significant "inertia relief" due to the fuel (a huge problem for electric planes, particularly electric conversions). Everything in wing design is a trade-off ... aspect ratio, wing section, wing weight, flap design, manufacturing cost, etc. The key to a successful is making the correct trade-offs ... decisions that can only be made with limited data and much guesswork !

Yes, lighter more aerodynamically efficient wings are "better", so too are gust alleviation controls. But, these impact the structure in unexpected and negative ways. Lighter wings are more dynamic in there response to gusts, increasing the stresses in the wing. Gust alleviation tries to limit this, but then it removes the high gust loads, which have a (surprisingly) beneficial impact on wing fatigue life.

Increasing wing span is indeed a real technical challenge ... look at the 777X wing tips ... the airport gates are a significant design limitation (sort of like the Shorts Stirling, wing span limited to suit the existing hangars).

I think this strutted wing is a dead end. i think the aero impacts of the strut/wing joint are going to be "horrendous". I think their blended wing concept had a better chance.

Current strutted wings have very low speeds, that's why they're straight.

Weight of the demonstrator is pretty irrelevant ... it's "just" testing the aero models.

the NASA angle is interesting ... will the reports generated by available to the public (like all other NASA projects, except of course those with military applications) ?

[TheLastPhoenx]

Oh boy, I just hope we won't be seeing "Wing folded in flight" accidents.

[nongorilla]

Looks like an interesting concept. After the first couple of crashes caused by cost cutting measures regarding safety and the subsequent enforced updates, I might even board one of those!

[artw]

GAWD I love your channel! Your unbiased coverage of such a huge array of aeronautical topics is just so Professional (capital P intended).

[keanandelarosa]

I've refinished the wings on several Dreamliners since they have issues with UV damage. The wings are absolutely humongous and you can comfortably walk along them without worrying about room lol