FIRST Start in DECADES!? Testing Old 3 Phase Machines ~ Installing a Rotary Phase Converter ~ Part 3

Let's see if the 3 phase machines I have been gathering even start up!

Check out Part 1 & 2 and you can see all the work that led to my ability to start up 3 phase monsters!

So now that I finally have 3 phase power it's time to start up some of my old monster machines!! I've been collecting them for awhile and been unable to power them up, but not any more!

We'll do the initial start up & overview on these 6 machines:
- Van Norman Duplex Milling Machine No. 2
- Kalamazoo 6"x48" Belt Grinder / Sander
- Lincoln Electric Power Wave 355m with a 25m Power Feed
- Cincinnati Hydrashift 17x54 Engine Lathe
- J.A. Fay 38" Wood Cutting Bandsaw from the 1880's
- J.A. Fay & Egan Universal WoodWorker Setup as an 18" Wood Jointer from around 1900

I have many more to start up and put back to work, but I figured this would be a good start!

I'd love to know your thoughts on this project!

If you have any suggestions, questions, or comments, please leave them below!

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#StartingMachines #3PhasePower #SalvageWorkshop

[SalvageWorkshop]

Quite a bit of work had to happen before I could fire these machines up, but it was WELL worth it! Check out the rest of the project here:

[mikedavis]

Just a bit of trivia..Corry’s Machine &Tool, Bonaparte Iowa was a huge dealer for Cincinnati Tools and a few others. From a small town of 850. They sold equipment all over the country and even exported to Europe.
I am in a nursing home in the adjacent village of Keosauqua Iowa. I’ve been here for 2 years and one of the first person I met was a Richard Cory. His brother Frank Corry was the main salesman along with agents scattered all over the country. Richard was in charge of delivery and setup and traveled the country sometimes hauling up to 8 machines on his flatbed. Lots of storytelling from the old guy..
Sadly these days Richard is suffering from dementia and is pretty unsteady on his feet. He would get a kick out of seeing an old machine he probably delivered and not forgotten. Last week here at the Care Centerwe celebrated Richards birthday, , , , not sure if he knew what was going on but he liked the cake.

[robertmason]

The Cincinnati lathe is “preselector”. Somewhere around maybe the 50’s a couple of the big American lathe manufacturers started building these types of speed change mechanisms into their lathe with the idea it would speed up the changing of rpms. While a good idea, the complex mechanism often proved counterproductive as keeping them properly functioning often proved difficult. They were often callled “Rube Goldberg” mechanism, referring to using an unnecessarily complicated mechanism to perform a task easily done by simpler means. Goldberg was an old time cartoonist that drew humorous overly complicated mechanisms in his cartoons. When these lathes are functioning correctly they are great though.
While I haven’t used a Cincinnati lathe with this control, I do own a big LeBlond with the same type of headstock shifting, called a “servo-shift”. These use a small hydraulic pump to control custom proprietary fluidics inside the headstock to shift the various forks and thus make the gear changes. Operation is by “pre-selecting the speed the operator wishes. On the leblond, and I assume the cinncy is similar, you have your typical lathe forward/reverse spindle engagement handle on the headstock and a redundant duplicate handle on the carriage that is basically rotating what’s referred to as the “third rod” (leadscrew is 1st or top, feed screw/shaft is below that/2nd, and control rod below that at the bottom/3rd. This control rod/3rd rod is what the spindle fwd/rev on/off handle directly rotates. It is mechanically coupled to a drum switch typically.
The Servo-shift leblonds have 5 positions (rather closely detented) on this handle or knob on newer versions.
Center-off and spindle brake applied
One notch up or down from center is brake off/motor off but lathe is still “in gear”
Fully up/down from center is on fwd/rev respectively.
To change speeds select one up/down from center to the motor off/brake off position and select rpm on dial. Drop lever to center position and the spindle will oscillate slightly in what is termed “crawl speed”. The hydraulic motor spins up and the internal mechanism slides the gears around to make the shift. You only want to leave it in this position for a few seconds, long enough to move the gears into position which if you listen closely you can hear the clunk inside the headstock as they move into position. Move the lever up/down one detent to go to machine off/brake off or all the way up/down to fire up the spindle and begin your turning.
From then on is where they get the pre-selector part of their name. Anytime while machining a part or otherwise when the spindle is turning, you may “preselect” your next speed by simply changing the dial to desired rpm. The next time you engage the center position on that main spindle/brake on/off lever it will, after braking, go into the above described crawl speed shifting process.
Parts/problems to look for at least on the leblond that might cause the shifting problem (which again I assume is very similar and was even built in Ohio-the machine tool capital world)—
-Zero speed sensor—was a mercury switch to let the analog electronics know the spindle had stopped and it was ok to initiate a shift.

-Wires going to the electromechanical brake. They reside under the change gear/end gear train cover. Left side of headstock where you were questioning the engagement of that bull gear with the feed/threading gearbox (quick change gear box). The brake itself is very durable in my experience.

-Small motor that runs the hydraulics for shifting gears

To answer your question about the gears on the end of the quick change feed/threading box—yes that gear should be engaged with that large bull gear. Those gears on the left of a lathes headstock is called the end gear train or change gears as early lathes and smaller hobby lathes typically requires changing them to attain different feeds and threads. They are adjustable in their engagement in that they are mounted on a banjo or quadrant that has slots so you can move them in and out of engagement for the different size gears used.

[craigtate]

Love those old machines, especially the bandsaw and jointer

[larrywhite]

This old machinist showed me this weird tip. When I'm talking old machinist, i am 72 and this was when i was much younger. When searching for noises on an old machine that has questionable bearings try using a stethoscope and if you do not have one use a section of wooden broom handle. Grab the wooden handle so the top of your fist is level to end of the handle, then put the other end on suspected noisy bearing and then press your ear to the top of your fist on the end of the broomstick and listen. Surprisingly, it works a lot better than you would think, It also works on car engines, because an old mechanic showed this to me on a defective water pump bearing that was just starting to make noise. Watch abom79 he is a frickin genius with machinist arena. Put some oil in it and see what happens..

[benpaske]

I have a 17" Cincinnati hydrashift that I've been getting running. I've had some of the same problems as you. Yes, adjust those big gears to be in mesh. Smash a piece of paper between them to provide the proper clearance. Mine were loose at first and it sounded horrible. The gearbox issues- take that top cover off and take a poke around inside. Right underneath is a big manifold with three shift forks to manipulate the gear sets underneath. On my lathe I found that the gear forks were not positioned correctly on thier shafts. (They're only clamped with pinch bolts). There are two hydraulic pumps. One to supply lube while the spindle is turning and one to supply hydraulic pressure while the spindle is stopped to shift gears. You can run the machine with the cover off, but prepare yourself for oil getting sprayed everywhere.

[Bugman]

I work in the old Van Norman building in Springfield, MA. It’s awesome to see you getting this working!

[mytinyworkshop]

These are some awesome tools. I can’t wait to have a large workshop to have such toys.

[johngrace]

Watching videos like yours and others is slowly building my courage. My wood mill has two ancient bandsaws sitting out in their yard and I'm beginning to think even I could take one apart and restore. I already have a 14" band saw but frankly it's a 'toy' when compared to these bigger monsters.

[unclejers]

Glad to see some of them work! I was half expecting a fireworks show with that bandsaw though....

[dusty]

Love to see old machines come back to life! Please just don't let them explode in your face though man.

[bobjoncas]

..good revival of old iron and eventually putting them back to work..be safe and have a great week..

[ScoutCrafter]

Great job getting the machines running! That is a LOT of =D

[glennmoreland]

Both the bandsaw and the planer motors will need rebuilding properly...

That Cincinnati lathe:
If it's similar to the ward prelector and the Herbert pre-op types (UK turret lathes)....then it'll have a multi port selector feeding hydraulic slaves for changing the gears...
They'll likely be a load of copper small bore pipes inside coming off a manifold and going to various selectors...🇬🇧👍

[timfast]

love your shows. You really get into things. Its great!

[bradgrozdanich]

Sure is nice to see someone taking the time and effort to rescue these old machines. I would love the jointer, but it would take up 1/4 of my garage shop.

[Greekman]

Plenty of future projects! I'm anxious to see you working on them!

[pnwRC.]

You've got some wonderful old machinery sitting around your shop!

[Name-vukn]

Fireball tool channel did an excellent referb of a band saw that looks just like this. It's freeking awesome.

[garrypalmer]

The belts are directional, and must run the way the arrow is pointing