Could Luther join the LCMS?

The Law/Gospel distinction is indeed a very great light. But Dr Luther knew that a Christian equipped to engage the white noise of his day would see that theology and politics go together.

[davidw.]

I agree with you. Luther, nor the Prophets nor the Apostles would last long in the LCMS.

[davidthenewtheologian]

Pastor what church do we go to ? Is the LCMS still a good place to be?

[christopherjackson]

This is an excellent clip. Man, I hear you on this. Actually reading Luther's sermons completely changed the way I preach.

[DALhsm]

Must have struck a nerve, the arrows are flying.
Great stuff!

[tedbadje]

Luther was pivotal to the Reformation, but still was a product of his times. The RC hierarchy was bent on persecuting those who followed Luther’s teaching, even to the point of death. That is why Luther delved into politics. Was he a systematic theologian, probably not. Melanchthon used systematics, though he was wrong on some doctrines. Chemnitz was able to formulate Lutheran systematic theology. Pastor Jon, I would use more tact when talking about men training to be pastors. I am sure most understand historical context about Luther and others.

[shostycellist]

I don't follow his point about the purpose of Walther's lectures on Law/Gospel. As someone who came out of evangelicalism, I can say that Walther's lectures are a gift sent from heaven. To downplay them makes me suspect that you have never experienced a weekly diet of law from the pulpit and the unfortunate results. In every sermon I want to be hit between the eyes with law - my guilt before a holy God - and Gospel - God's total rescue in Christ. Bring it out of the text. The problem in Lutheran preaching is there isn't enough of this. The preaching is bland and generic. BTW, Luther did get too entangled in politics - remember the peasants revolt??

[walkingwithjesus]

C.F.W. Walther, 1st President of the LCMS, wouldn't join the LCMS today.

[olydriver]

Good points, especially concerning Jesus and the Apostles and their qualifications for the LCMS. I think of John 7:14-16 and Acts 4:13.

[teacon]

Here from LBRY/odyssey to like the vid. Thanks for not throwing Walther under the bus along with overly facile Law/Gospel preaching. That gets done too often for edginess points. It'd be great to understand the overly-facile L/G sermon outline as a well-intentioned tool aimed at keeping folks from getting too far from "justification by faith." It's well and good to talk about issues facing Christians today, but neither Jesus nor the apostles tried to overthrow the Romans. So advocating for 'political' sermons needs a bit of qualification. You know there are preachers out there who confuse the Kingdoms. The main issue facing Christians today is not political but spiritual, so re-re-reaffirming the centrality of God's imputed righteousness isn't a bad strategy. Let's own our failures, but let's not throw out the good fruit along with the poorly-done.

[augsburgbiblechannel]

Law/Gospel becomes a framework placed over the text so that we don't dive into the Bible. We end up preaching a framework and not a text.

[judithtaylor]

This is so (I can’t say) but it’s brilliant. Gutsy and really good.

[ThinkingBiblically]

Perhaps we should follow Jesus Christ rather than Martin Luther.

[dabuya]

Stepping out, my brother! Calling for truth amidst voices wanting to push a narrative. I may be stepping on myself here, but I believe you’re onto something. Keep the faith! BTW, know that your efforts to proclaim God’s words are making an impact outside of your inner circle.

[edwardluth]

I doubt seriously today if Dr Luther would join the LCMS. Too liberal and too far away from original Lutheran. And too quiet on important issues. Luther spoke bluntly and honestly.

[behanner]

Luther couldn't go to seminary in the LCMS because he would never accept the 'Quia' of the Book of Concord, heck he would never sign the Formula of Concord.
I think there two things missing from this, firstly that the founders of the LCMS came from a Prussia where they were persecuted where the church had a relationship with the government. This is why the LCMS is so very hands off from this. The national flags did not enter our churches until WWI after they arrested pastors and forced our schools to no longer teach German. And I think in my lifetime we are finally seeing them taken out of some sanctuaries and put into foyers.
Secondly there is no threat equal to the Turks since the Cold War, did any LCMS pastors talk about the Soviet Union? I don't remember it but it was a long time ago. There is no threat equivalent to the papacy today.

[BOB_EDC]

I think if you let him loose rev fisk would be the next luther. Love this guy.

[meltingpopsicle]

Hi Pastor, in this clip, you didn't give specific examples of what a modern political sermon should sound like, so I think I disagree with what you have to say about preaching politics, but I'm not sure (for context, I'm a layman).

While it is certainly true that theology and politics go together, that does not mean that the pastor should inject very much politics into the sermons. General political statements in sermons are fine, but there should be nothing specific about what laws need to be passed, what candidates to vote for, what nasty schemes the president's been up to this week, etc. For instance, in relation to gun issues, there's no problem with statements like "fathers have a responsibility to protect their families" or "the government has a responsibility to maintain law and order, " but pastors should avoid statements like "Christians should vote for pro-Second Amendment candidates" or "The government must ban AR-15s." While either of these last two statements might be true, they should not be preached from the pulpit.

There are four reasons for this. 1) Politics in sermons tend to crowd out Bible exegesis and the Gospel. 2) Political opinions in the States are deeply influenced by bitter factionalism, suspicion, resentment, and willful misrepresentations (this is true not only of liberals, but also conservatives). Political sermons run the risk of promoting these unchristian things. 3) Most modern political opinions cannot be exegetically derived from the Bible; therefore, a pastor is in danger of isogetically reading his own opinions into the Bible and then binding the congregation's consciences to them as if they were God's own word. 4) Lay people are voting citizens here in the States, and so the responsibility is on us to apply Christian values when we vote and participate in the political process. We do not have the right to delegate that responsibility to our pastors.

[ronrosenkaimer]

Do you think there are any LCMS pastors who preach like a moderated Luther?

[mcnielentertainment]

So Martin Luther couldn't join the LUTHERAN church missouri synod?

[krbohn]

These are interesting times... as all times are. In a way I like seeing the winnowing but am not sure what to do if the churches within reasonable distance are all about the pagan love that has infiltrated. I moved to a city that is very liberal and tried a LCMS church. Big, beautiful organ playing good old hymnal songs; liturgy being read and responded to. Alright, maybe there is a small bit of light here in this town. Then all of a sudden nope. The sermon was basically "I don't care about this Michael day thing so let me tell you about the social problems you all created and how you should fix it". Among other things that would bring Luther and Walther to say "NO, this is wrong!".