The power of the Soviet education system | Po-Shen Loh and Lex Fridman

Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:

GUEST BIO:
Po-Shen Loh is a mathematician at CMU and coach of the USA International Math Olympiad team.

PODCAST INFO:

SOCIAL:

[dayanand]

I am From India my father studied computer science and engineering in USSR ! Trust me it is really tough!

[ccmadminstrator]

The best thing about soviet education was the equal level of study among all the schools. There are thousands of examples when children from the very small and far villages became scientists or brilliant engineers, doctors, etc... This educational system gave equal possibilities to everybody everywhere. And what is very remarkable it was free of charge for all, including means of living, every student of higher educational program received scholarship and free place in dormitory.

[fghhna]

I am from Russia and had been in high school in mid 2000s. We had a math teacher, a lady about 60yo at that time, who was in an extreme love with teaching, math and kids of course. She grew up and lived most of her life druing Soviet Union, she was a soviet person. So when I was in high school in mid 2000s Russia was still recovering from disastrous 90s, there was still poverty and the schools were austere. Teachers were paid paltry salaries. The kids would sit in pairs or triples at one table having one schoolpook per table.
During two final years of high school our math teacher organised for us a pretty harcore curriculum. On top of the regular curriculum, which already included math of course, we would come to school on tuesdays and thursdays after school hours and have 1.5 hours of extracurricular math each time. And on saturdays it was a total hardcore for us young boys, we would come to school at 12pm and have 3.5 hours of math straight.
Even tho I was the laziest and most stupid boy in class, the sheer bombartment of our brains with math had let me pass exams to a university and get free tuition due to the scores.

[phonty]

I live in Kazakhstan, it's near Russia and it was an USSR member. Soviet math culture it was the best thing about communism era

[santiagocarreno]

I once read somewhere soviet kids were taught in environments that although very austere, were so obsessed with intellectualism, kids in the Seventh Grade competed not on popularity, but rather, and for example, to see who was able to solve extremely difficult advanced calculus problems that western university students wouldn't be even able to solve.

[justadult]

I looked at my grandpa’s Soviet high school textbooks from the 60s. I think it was equivalent to 9th or 10th grade. As opposed to my post-Soviet generation which started learning similar stuff on our last year of school and first year of university. Soviet highschooler beating modern univeristy student.
And another great thing about Soviet education system were the youth organizations. Not only did the Soviet kids learn more (quantity and quality), but they were also NOT dissociated from each other. There definitely was a sense of comradeship and collective nature. As opposed to now, when we have closed off rigid cliques and generally disdainful attitudes towards our peers. My father and grandfather (Soviet citizens) saw their peers as comrades, friends, allies, while we are taught to look at each other like competitors and rivals from a very young age. That’s the free market thinking - everyone else is your competitor who you must beat.
So, not only was the Soviet education better in terms of acquisition of knowledge, but also in raising better generations

[Nat_Cat]

That's so interesting you're saying that. My family came from Russia when I was very young, but my parents insisted on applying that Soviet education mindset even amidst me going to school in Germany. And I have to say that I'm extremely grateful for that.

[Laayon]

There's like a glimmer of pride and excitement in your eyes Lex when explaining this. You have a deep love and respect for this system. It's nice.

[edpowers]

Look at American high schools and see how much value they place in the athletes, parading their trophies, buying them multi million dollar facilities. Academics should be praised by displaying their Olympiad trophies, buying them multi million dollar science facilities, etc.

[codemaster]

When I was in high-school, I had some Soviet Era Math books and I was very obsessed with these books. They shaped me up in terms of critical/analytical thinking. Would recommend it to anyone if they want to follow.

[muf]

When my parents and their friends gather if there is anything they praise about the soviet union it's its education of the sciences. even literature.

[marcommat]

I went through a (post)-soviet educational system (in Poland). When I studied in the UK I was noticeably ahead of the western counterparts. More mature and more educated to the point I struggled not to consider them stupid (apologies, nothing personal).
Now, 20+ years after high school I realized I learned all the maths needed for the AI and despite being an artist I have very little problems understanding both concepts and maths within. Simple..

[rahulvats]

I grew up reading a lot of Russian Books. They were always loaded with Tough problems.

[grammaton]

When Lex mentions innovation and knowledge being prized at a young age in the Soviet Union, what he's talking about is the motto, and general attitude, that "we were raising Creators (творец - творцов), not Consumers", which sentiment permeated Soviet society and culture. Soviet citizens could be lazy, unmotivated, stupid, etc. But they were not "consumers"; there was no such term in the first place: the closest synonym would be "parasite". They still fundamentally contributed in some way, (unless they were precluded by disability or something).

[riderrwalker]

I am from post USSR country, my parents and grandparents can retell the poems they read at 6th class like 40 years ago by memory.

[symmetry]

Yep, Soviet Educational system was emphhasis on math, geometry, chemistry and physics. As well as history and writing with its Literature, when it developed into separate faculty. Very much classical quality learning - you do it or don't. Or science will go deeper into high calculus and so forth.

[ImperativeGames]

When I studied in a post-Soviet school we were told "Практика - критерий истины". You can translate it like "Truth is checked by practice".
And in practice, no, you can't provide a good level of education to majority of the population in "liberal" countries. Elites/establishment isn't interested, no one wants to pay for it and children have small chances of actually using this education (because social mobility is very limited) so why bother.

[shubhamrauut]

Ussr had done revolution in the education and health sector. Central Asian countries were the ones beniffited the most.

[evawind]

I am afraid you cannot extrapolate the Soviet system of education to the western world, because the Soviet system was raising creators and the capitalist system is raising consumers. Why would a consumer need to know calculus, geometry, etc.?

[rightfeelI]

my father studied in a soviet style school and he always say that secondary subjects where great, every student had to choose one or two secondary subject that they were called (program KAD) and go learn it after school my father chose carpentry and photography and he always talk about them, although he didn't continue non of them as a professional job he still make tables sometimes for fun and take some photos and enjoy it