DUAL-DRIVE Gear EXTRUDERS SUCKS? (GALILEO 2 vs ORBITER V2 & P1S vs A1)

👉🏻 In this video I am testing and comparing single versus drive gear extruders' extrusion consistency. Because Galileo 2 and Orbiter V2 extruders have the same mounting points it makes this comparison "apples to apples" as much as possible. I also tested and compared test prints from Bambu Lab P1S which has a dual drive and A1 Mini single-drive gear extruders.

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🕗 TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Reason of testing
00:44 - Why Orbiter V2 vs Galileo 2
01:30 - First test prints with 0.2mm nozzle
02:24 - Test prints with 0.4mm nozzle
04:06 - Galileo 2 should perform better?
05:25 - Summary of the results & more info

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#3dprinting #3dprinter #extruder

[VezD]

Single large gear with dual bearings to wrap the filament arround the big gear and maximize contact. That would be my design. But i must admit i am super happy with my hextdudort Plus with larger gear. It offers TONS of grip and power to achieve crazy flow and it doesnt have that much artifacts. Very consistent ❤

[Garage]

Was just rewatching this video and I noticed something. Pause at 4:46 and there definitely is a difference for both the Orbiter and Galileo after the Z-wobble fix. Put the video in 4K and go full screen to see it clearest. The easiest difference to spot is the light reflection at the left side of each test print. Before the fix, the line is uneven and much choppier. After the fix it is a nearly perfectly straight reflection. Looking at the overall surface of the print there is a also a slight, but noticeable reduction in any VFA patterns, as well as a more even appearance overall. Pause at 5:09 and the same improvements are even more obvious. The light reflections are much cleaner, especially on the Galileo print, and a visible shifting pattern every several lines is almost completely gone. Overall, the fix was definitely helpful and I'd say there may even be 5% wobble left to completely dial out with a more advanced Z-wobble fix, as you can still see a slight repeating pattern every 26 lines or so, but I think the simple fix was good enough.

[igiannakas]

Couple of things to consider for the variations you’re seeing between the Bambu A series and the custom printer would be any resistance in the Bowden tube setup from the extruder back to the spool.

I’ve noticed personally a much more consistent extrusion performance using the ERCF plus a belay sensor and synchronised extrusion between the ERCF and the extruder to ensure the filament is fed properly into the extruder with minimal drag. Also another thing to note is that the Bambu printers internally apply some minor smoothing to sharp angles so just be conscious of it when comparing like for like models between them and a klipper printer (that doesn’t apply any).

Finally do consider any potential speed variations due to minimum layer time - I’ve found significant improvements by excluding the external perimeters from the layer time slow downs (and have implemented a feature to do so in orca 2.1).

[MrHeHim]

I just installed a HGX lite with the large extruder gears and it's a world of difference. I did notice you can have serious problems with binding, you need to be very careful when tightening the assembly as a very small shift will make it bind up. I also used Super Lube synthetic 30 weight with PTFE. What sold me on the LGX lite was the free floating extruder gears that ride on the needle bearings that allow them to naturally settle centered. I can honestly say my printer now looks as good and maybe better than the A1 with helical gears. And i'm still jelly of those helical gears.

Secret sauce, i cleaned the bearings out and ran it dry for a bit with no load to break in the bearings then put on the Super Lube. WD-40 is great to wash parts, then compressed air to dry it out.

Now, another issue is print speed (max flow).. before the single gear would allow slippage and now there's basically no slippage BUT when it reaches the motors limits you see strange artifacts of basically the motor. Essentially there's a very fine line between flowing "100%" and skipping, and i like running my motor at low amps for when im printing enclosed high temp filaments. FYI that limit was forcing PLA @230C at 100mm3s though a volcano nozzle for about 5 seconds until the heater couldn't keep up, i thought it was going to grind it right away and beardly let any filament though.. i was shocked it pushed so much. Either way, i print mechanical parts and never really need more than 30mm3s. But it was cool to see the filament sponge back to size coming out of the nozzle lol


Best $17 spent on Aliexpress lol

Other extruders i've played with are the Sprit and the E3D REVO H2 V2S, but not much better than a MK8 extruder when printing at the optimal melting point. I just wanted something that was smoother, and the HGX lite with large gears did the trick

[tamtam]

In my Voron 0, I couldn't feel much difference between the Sherpa-MINI, Orbiter 2, and LGX-Lite, but this Galileo 2 made an overwhelming difference. It has excellent extrusion consistency.

[yuripolak]

i´d love to see the same tests on a "proper extruder" the belt extruder designed by Jón from proper printing

[mneste]

You need to take a look at the extruder motor drivers(and see if they are the same across all the printers) and see what settings they are working with because microstepping, amperage, frequency hysteresis (this setting is not seen on a typical printer config file but can be put in for better control at least in klipper), etc. all affect the torque curve of the motors. Also the spring preload will affect the torque output as well. All these factors affect the torque consistency and therefore output.

[webslinger]

DIY hevo corexy dual z leadscrews with sherpa mini. I resolved z banding enabling z hop on prusa slicer. For me it was the backlash on the leadscrews. I would try using oldham couplers sometime in the future.

[FarrelClement]

Not sure what those other comments are complaining about, you're perfectly understandable.

[brianfox]

I have found that using CNC machined gears that use ball bearings rather than needle bearings greatly reduces the layer extrusion errors. I use fysetc, but there are others out there (rigda, mellow etc). The best result I have had so far is using the Sherpa Micro "fixed idler" extruder. There is no tension screw and the tolerance of the print determines the meshing of the gears.

[Garage]

Love your testing! I would love a video where you compare the A1 extruder to a run-in Galileo 2 on that same ball screw printer you have.

[mathewbrunza]

Would be nice to see the dual single drive extruders like the OMG I wonder if the quality would improve or would it be the same as a dual drive extruder?

[dalton]

You look at the new prusa extruder it uses one big gear with two bearing pressure points

[torxfighter]

Would you be able to test out both cnc aluminum vzhextrudort versions out?. There are also slanted and non slanted teeth versions. Comparing the VZHexturdort and VZHexturdort Plus and effects of the slanted and non slanted gears interrests me, could also try bearing as idler gear but that is alot of variables. The Plus version should have lower pushing force but if this is still enough for high flow hotends (enough meaning if you push more you get bad layer adhesion anyway) i can see the advantage of the bigger gear with your earlier video about big filament gears.

Love the videos btw. Keep it up!.

[yonutz]

I would make this comparison (orbiter & galileo) vs Bondtech LGX & HGX lite/oblique

[riba]

Yes, please make that a1 inspired extruder, that would be awesome 😊

[jonnyboytech]

Thank you so much for the testing and information, learnd alot from the subject

[cerberes]

I don’t remember if you did or if somebody else did a test on the concentricity of the extruder gears but that made a big difference in the print quality.

[LAZER]

Hey, can you test the Papilio Lite extruder? Maybe even with some parts printed in sls or slm by pcbway?

[saddle]

I don't understand dual gear drives. As the filament is loaded, the gears separate to allow it to pass between them. Surely the drive teeth also separate at the same time, so it's probably filament friction doing a fair amount of work to turn the second drive wheel. The drive teeth will not mesh properly when filament is there.