why i don’t like postmodern design

Hi again! This week's video is for design nerds 🤍

I felt like opening up a convo about postmodernism in architecture and interior design because I've been seeing sooo many things labeled as "postmodern" recently. I personally rlly dislike the ideology behind postmodernism so it makes me sad to see nicely designed things mislabeled as postmodern.

This video is definitely very brief and there's a lot more to say but I hope it makes the general point about what postmodernism actually is, how it relates/reacts to modernism, and why I consider it to be *bad design*

Hope this is interesting & that you agree postmodernism is icky !!

xx nd

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[elo]

As someone that doesn't have TikTok and doesn't want it, please never think twice about posting a "repition" on your YouTube channel. Your commentary on design here is very welcome. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[carolinesmith]

I've been reading Jane Jacob's book "The Death and Life of Great American Cities" and she makes some really fascinating points about how modernist architects like Le Corbusier founded modern urban planning and how their ideas (surrounding city planning, e.g. the Radiant City) were detrimental to cities in the 20th century. Its crazy how modernist architecture seems so honest and people centered, but these same architects laid the groundwork for "urban renewal" and destroying neighborhoods. Its a great book, highly recommend.

[craftyluna]

I agree that architecture and interiors that are non-functional on purpose are bad design (though I think they can be excellent art) what constitutes "excessive" and "unnecessary" ornamentation is a pure matter of opinion and can't be "good" or "bad" design. As long as the stairs can be safely and effectively used as stairs, having a funky mix of colors and patterns, or every spindle a different shape and style, is something you personally might find displeasing but someone else might find whimsical and fun. We're only on this planet a relatively short amount of time, and so much of our time is taken up by things that are so serious so why not allow some playfulness into design? I think postmodernism isn't always a "fuck you, " sometimes it's just fun. And, yeah, ok, maybe it's a bit childish, but so what? I'm paying my bills on time, I'm taking care of my responsibilities, maybe a weird shaped table that looks like it could have been on the set of a Nickelodeon show in the 80s makes me smile, and if so, that IS serving a purpose.

[christopherxavier]

Postmodernist designers and architects do actually respond to the culture and environment around them. With irony and cynicism. Designers who think design is a pointless joke are not my thing either but that’s how I perceive the postmodern design ethos

[JSPHKH]

i feel you on the smaller scale postmodern spaces and objects but you kind of lose me when you try to paint all of them—especially the larger works—as being fundamentally alike in a way that is fundamentally negative.

eg, i’ve been to the disney concert hall many times over the years and honestly never really think about how it looks anymore. but in terms of functional qualities—acoustically, crowd management, entry and exit etc—i think it is pretty undeniably successful.

why are we willing to say “#notallmodernism” but not “#notallpostmodernism”?

[AlicedeTerre]

Love when you got to the part of art vs design. I'm an artist by education and a (software) designer by profession, and I watch a lot of interior content. I find there's a pretty strong divide between people who view themselves as artists or designers and how that translates into their space.

For instance, almost across the board, designers will advise not to go all in on one style and to mix and match while artists will absolutely go ham on a theme. Imo I think that tension is probably what gives you that ick about post modern buildings.

As a designer, I feel the same about these buildings, but as an artist, I can't say I like them but I don't hate them in the same way because of the history and knowledge of how postmodernism in art evolved. They're evocative, challenging, and thought provoking in ways that interior design probably shouldn't be, but I can't hate on people that push the boundaries.

That being said, I 100% agree with you on unsustainability of building such large spaces that don't feel comfortable or functional for the people that use them. I would prefer to see postmodernism make use of found objects and blend with natural elements that would make it more of a mature reaction to the types of modern materials that came with mass manufacturing.

[nyeeles]

I never ever comment, but I have to say I’m so glad I found your channel.

You’ve managed to perfectly encapsulate my thoughts in ways I didn’t know how to articulate before.

I’ve actually started completely redoing my apartment, buying new (old) stuff from Marketplace thanks to you. The thing that had always intuitively bugged me but I don’t know why you summarised in another video: dishonest materials!

They all had to go. Starting afresh. 😊

[michellepauline]

Would love to have a video on your thoughts on Brutalist design

[PhiliaBL]

This gets personal and I need to pen down my thoughts. Postmodernism always fascinates me given how diverse and different it is manifested across different fields - philosophically it has impacted me a lot since college, yet postmodern art isn’t my cup of tea. Personal taste aside, it seems a bit problematic to reject postmodernism as a whole in architecture and design.

I am primarily trained in urban planning and design, and Caroline’s earlier comment about Jane Jacob’s critique on modernism in this realm brings out a very pertinent question on understanding the rise and fall of modernism in architecture before the arrival of postmodernism. A crucial part of modernist design and architecture is this new layer of social responsibility, whereby better design is believed to be able to lead to a better way of life (physically, aesthetically, even morally) and ultimately a better world. Those are progressive and promising at the first glance, but are a bit arrogant and overly ambitious as well.

Beyond the usual critique of aesthetic blandness and the lack of personal identity, the fall of modernist design is kind of ironic to me due to its increasing insensitivity towards human and the contextuality into the 70s, and it is frustrating how the essence of human-oriented design is often missing or even executed in the exact opposite ways. This is a core reason why modernism as a movement has begun to be regarded as elitist, exclusive, detached from the working class, and even inhumane, despite its democratic intentions. Some modernist residential projects went really far in dictating interior designs in some housing estates. And in doing so, the actual wellbeing of ordinary residents has often been deprioritised when it comes to maintaining the code in modernist design. After all, Le Corbusier himself theorised (a) house as a living-in machine.

There are also varied subpar executions which further undermined modernist architecture with failed building methods and material choices - the justification of ‘affordability’ often ended up in using cheap materials with poor quality, which is especially prevalent among social housing projects. Eventually we have some grand residential projects and alienated housing estates which still impact a lot of cities decades later. And it’s unsurprising that postmodernism emerged under this backdrop of falling modernism, the dogmas associated with it, and the unfulfilled promises of a Utopian vision.

Of course I am not shitting on modernism as a whole, nor am I denying the intellectual merits of modernist design - moving to Barbican was my dream when I was living in London and I love and am collecting modernist furniture pieces, but I also believe in examining it holistically and critically. At the end of the day, form follows function is probably one of the most powerful and influential design principles in the 20th century, but neither form nor function should dictate one’s life or way of living.

[SpaceZombie]

I really appreciate your explanation on the difference between art and design. That cleared things up in my head. Postmodernism indeed feels like a hybride form of art and design. At the cost of loosing functionality it can win on the 'artistic expression' side of things. From a purely design point of view there's definitely critique to be had. I personally do think it's really cool that an art museum can look like an artwork itself. The feeling it evokes is also a very important design choice and can communicate what the building is about. Plus it adds to the variety of architecture in a city. Even though I'm generally not into most postmodern designs I see (especially oversaturated objects that look like toys) I do think it's cool it exists.

[victorgloom]

I view postmodern design in the same way that I view Wavelength (Michael Snow) or Fountain (Duchamp). Integral to art history, a necessary conversation, philosophical ponderings of what art even is, a critique yet reinforcement of the politics and economics of art, and the ever infinite changing complexities of expression. The more I try and put a value judgement on it, the more I realize that it's neither good nor bad. The best way that I know how to explain my feelings is that while I understand and respect what it's doing, ultimately I have my own voice that wants to express something else.

[twbrandt]

Thank you for sharing this, it articulates what bugged me about post-modernism. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness you bring to these discussions.

[Laneythekid]

I clicked onto this video as a surrealist artist who likes SOME postmodern pieces and came away pretty much completely agreeing with you. When a space or object is terrible to use, unless it is purely meant to be art, I wouldn't want to interact with it. That being said, I do own Alessi's juicer and it is actually easy/painless to use! I haven't had any juice drip down the legs and I find that it works quite well. Do I have to find the appropriate sized glass and use two hands? Yes. But I purchased it partially because I see it as a functional art piece. I do find it a little annoying that the designer didn't give two flying f***s if it worked or not though. Luckily, it happens to work well for me (probably partially because I'm not juicing 10 lemons a day). I love your distinction between art and design- a full video on this would be great. Honestly, to each their own on what people want to include in their daily life! I do see how a lot of postmodern pieces/buildings could be seen as "bad design"

[christopherleodaniels]

Frank Geary literally does ball up paper and give it to his team. There was a piece on 60 Minutes showing exactly that. And the object is then scanned, scaled up, and sliced in computer to figure out how each component is to be made and assembled in 3D space.

[lauraaarrr]

As a recent interior and spatial design graduate, you are the lecturer I wish I had. Your commentary is so valuable to young designers - in my case, I feel like you have articulated a lot of design principles that I intuitively thought of but never put into words, and hearing them said out loud has given my process more structure. Thank you for your videos Noah, I love this format!

[mallorygray]

i loved this! please do more videos talking about design periods you like/dislike i could listen for hours

[isaaclemus]

We are sat and ready to learn

Update
Okay so I disagree with a majority of this video but honestly it was really nice to hear you out and have a discussion with myself about the topic. I think a majority of the time I tend to watch content that only validates my preexisting opinions/assumptions, so it scratches a new itch when I find an intelligent argument from an opposing perspective.

It’s a refreshing feeling knowing that I agree with you whole heartedly on some topics but then have contrasting ideas on others. Keep it up king 💕

[GK-upxz]

Love Philippe Stark, almost all of this buildings and have had the lemon squeezer for 30 years. Have heard many young interior designers say that they learnt in school that it doesn’t work, yet I’ve used it all this time and it works perfectly so go figure…

[efciaq]

Your videos arey intellectual feast. I absolutely love how you talk about architecture and design. Can you recommend any books or other content creators that expand these topics?
Noah in some universe if you were a lecturer, I’d be your most eager architecture student.

[charles]

I work in the AEC industry, and often work closely, if not for architects. I love hearing your explanations of design theory and, as a result, having some insight to their design process. Your explanations have also helped me build my "design vocabulary" and I feel like I have a better eye for validating the built environment and interiors I encounter.

Love that you briefly mentioned the Museum of Pop. As a fellow former Seattle-ite, I always thought the building looked interesting, but out of place.