[2.7] Shinobu is actually good - Opinion

(This is not a guide video on how to build Shinobu)

When Shinobu came out, I was really confused about why the community at large rated her at trash tier. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or invalidate anyone's opinions or experiences, I just want to make my own case about why I think she's actually really good, and why she'll only be getting better by debunking some misconceptions and adding in my own experiences.

**TIMESTAMPS**
0:00 Introduction
1:15 Overview
4:50 Healing Capabilities
10:00 Damage
18:10 Teams

**CREDITS**

Burning simulation by: Tordgg

[Ashikai]

**POST VIDEO NOTES**

- CORRECTION: Potatos_zh on twitter pointed out that I used Talent level 7 on Sayu instead of Talent level 9! That was my mistake. To make up for this error, here's some new math with the same conditions but fixed talent level (please note that despite this additional math and corrections, it doesn't change the conclusion in the video):

With a Prototype Archaic lv90, lv9 talent, lv90, all atk% no subs artifacts, Sayu heals an initial 5, 000 + (4, 300 * 7) for 3, 5100 which puts her on par with Shinobu. Due to her higher base multipliers, an HB circlet has a higher scaling. I'm also not accounting for party wide healing since this was a per-character calculation. That would make her healing 15, 000 higher overall, BUT because Sayu doesn't heal on-field over 70% I'm going to ignore that 15, 000 for the comparison since you could argue that the 15, 000 can't be healed on an active unit. It is still absolutely worth mentioning. Sorry that got mixed up.

Also, a reminder that this is not a build guide. The calculations were not done with actual builds or even recommended builds. They were done with completely baseline stats with easy to access weapons, no artifact substats and no team resonance bonuses etc just so that we could compare raw healing output before any account or team specific variables. This is spreadsheet math, not necessarily practical math.

- I forgot to add this about Burning!
ICD is a little funky in that it also applies to the enemy. It's a little difficult to test burning properly right now because we can only test on dendro slimes or with dendro samachurls and not with a dendro character. While burning reactions do follow standard character ICD, there are some odd things with it. In the clips in this video, the dendro slime is infused with dendro, but so is the grass. Both the grass AND slime are burning so Shinobu is overloading with every pulse of her skill. I don't know if the grass is adding new instances of burning onto the slime which is causing the counter to be reset or if Shinobu is alternating what she's procing overload on between the GRASS ITSELF and the slime (and the slime is just in the overload AOE), but it's something to keep in mind. It's possible that some dendro AoE skills will function the same way as having grass when no grass is present which would allow her to overload twice as often. This would double her damage, so it'd be huge if true.

- Side note: I crowned her skill completely out of spite. It's not necessary and all calcs (for all characters in the video) were adjusted to account for talent level 9, not 10, just so everyone was on an even playing field.

[ayaandaepic]

you defending shinobu is even more reason for me to believe that this's yanfei's secret youtube channel

[trashketchum]

you basically predicted Kuki Shinobu’s role as the hyperbloom queen

[nicholassealstern]

This is the first time I've seen you breakdown a character in terms of how good they are in game rather than their role in the story. A refreshing change! Thanks!

[Isa-nwhp]

You know it gets real when the lore channel starts talking about a characters kit. Either way Kuki shinobu has a great design and it's fun to play with. She might not be the next bennett we get it but she's the first shinobu of her kind

[vans]

Now that Heizou is out and wants to be in close range and onfield, Shinobu's E hoop actually fits really well too! The melee swirl is real

[DonKangolJones]

Holy crap! This really sold her as a competent unit when a lot of other Youtubers have pegged her as a incomplete or confusingly constructed unit. You’ve constructed the best guide for her by far. Viewing her has a sort of electro swirl unit simplifies things so much when aiming for an EM build.

Not the content I was expecting from this channel, but very welcome!

[gimbo]

damn ashikai hands down the best “meta” video on youtube. you should consider making more videos like this for underrepresented units like thoma, because you just explain everything so clearly, and the editing is fantastic. while im more about the lore of the game myself, this video was fantastic.

[keepingtheknightslinetrue]

Honestly, in my opinion, she was designed with Dendro (and Elemental Mastery) in mind. I don't have her; however, from some of the builds/tests that I've seen, an EM build can do decent damage and provide decent healing. Additionally, if you have some of her constellations, she has 100 percent uptime, on her healing and electro application.

There is the possibility that the Dendro element (and, potentially, new character kits) provides some sort of EM buff that could synergize with her.

Also, I find it weird that players are against powercreep, but then bash every new character that isn't Bennett. With being the only electro healer (which isn't even Electro's primary role), in my opinion, she enables new team comps, and she may work better in teams, once Dendro is released.

[flamango]

She’s been perfect for me in my electro charged, overload, phys and even trio geo team. I used to use Diona in most teams as a comfortable healer but now Ive noticed I never go out without shinobu as my reliable 4th slot. She’s even fun in coop with ocean hued, collecting heals and delivering the bubble to slap enemies 😅 I’m glad I ignored the vids abt her when she came out

[Shokukun]

As a 4* collector I am so offended that SHE IS THE ONLY ONE I DONT HAVE AND I CANT PULL FOR HER ANYMORE 😭

[albaetham]

I really dislike how the community tends to devalue healers in general, specifically qiqi and kuki. Everyone memes on qiqi and says shes trash, but she provides excellent healing and pretty much never dies. Kuki has good healing and great electro application. Both these characters may not shine in terms of damage, but the healing they provide allows for a much comfier play style in general.

[thetalkingbear]

I enjoy the way this game allows for arriving at a good place for players but then not having to take the same path. Variety being the spice of life.

[shadeofthenight]

I feel like only half of the characters are designed to be the perfect play and the rest are made more for just fun in mind which makes people upset for some reason. Like toma is not that great but he’s fun so I play as him.

[turtle]

This video aged so well like fine wine

[MasterMarioMX]

9:46
the bottom line is people is obsessed with BIG numbers but can't count fast ones. Can't blame them, happens to me all the time too.

[yoshikamiyafujidesu]

Just crazy how accurate your predictions were with the full EM thing and dendro electro reactions... maybe you should make more TC videos xD (though your lore videos are amazing too!)

[cresentj]

5 months later....laughs in hyperbloom. One of the most consumer friendly characters in the game. Easy to build with guilded dreams, doesn't need constellations and her main ability that does 60k (30kx2) hyperbloom damage + heals you isn't even tied to her ult meaning you have like 96% uptime with it and it isn't tied to a field you need to play in either. Very good unit.

[fellknight]

This is the same thing that ALWAYS happens.

1. New character is released.
2. New character isn't main DPS.
3. New character isn't busted.
4. New character is compared at 6/6/6 talents with suboptimal teams vs 8+/8+/8+ characters with great artifacts and is found lacking
5. New character is lambasted by the twitterazi, everyone agrees they suck.
6. 3-4 weeks in, people realize how to ACTUALLY properly play the character and they are all of a sudden quite good.

[SpderBedo]

I honestly think she's an amazing support. She's also so so so great in physical teams too!! I like to run phys Kaeya with her and he needs the healing (cause I cannot dodge for my life), he needs the constant electro application for superconduct, and he benefits so so much from the tenacity four piece buff she gives him due to him wanting a high atk due to his insane na scaling! Even though my physical Kaeya team is severely underlevelled, she makes it possible for me to use it in abyss (especially in floor 10 with those abyss lectors which make me go insane due to their shields)