TF2: My Beef with the Crusader's Crossbow

New videos will happen when I get new ideas!

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Competitive Team Fortress 2 Player and Commentator
Snapchat - slinB

[tecfore]

the skill based in TF2 is one of the things that makes TF2

[willmackaness]

I feel like the mechanics of tf2 are difficult to get a hold of, and this is what makes tf2 a great competitive game

[herptim]

Having a button to press in order to rocket jump is stupid. If that's what it takes for recognition tf2 as an Esport, the crowd is prety stupid.

[DARKMATTERYOLO]

Don't nerf. Give more options via more weapons

[eggzy]

But Slin, TF2 isn't an easy game, Overwatch is. There's a reason rocket jumping is in tf2 and isn't in Overwatch, Overwatch is meant for a wider audience. It's like comparing Dota 2 to LoL, you just can't

[Dwapking]

I agree that the crossbow is OP atm, and should be nerfed. But your argument that valve should reduce skill level in favor for popularity is a silly one.

[Mixa_Lv]

One hidden buff for the Crossbow too was the universal weapon switch speed buff to all classes. This affected to every medic weapon, but it's more beneficial for the Crossbow than any of the needleguns. Needleguns require you to keep firing for dealing damage, but for Crossbow you can quickly draw it out, fire a healing/damaging bolt, and as quickly switch back to your healgun/saw. This has made the burst healing more viable than ever, and also comboing between bolts/melee hits is much more fluent.

Also I didn't really understand the logic why it really needed the uber building ability. It's already an amazing benefit to deal that amount ranged healing, and now without even a downside. Previously you had to at least think between building uber and healing faster and make a decision, but now you should use the crossbow whenever the healing won't be wasted. Fun fact, if the patient has quick heals you gain more uber by using bolts since medguns only build by the time being healed.

I could also rant about the Amputator that was changed to have a similar kind of healing rampup the Cozy Camper and Conch have. This doesn't make for a simple reason: Amputator is an actively healing weapon, you have to have the thing out to receive the healing. For backpack weapons the scaling makes sense because
1) For getting the effect you have already given out you secondary weapon, that's a heavy downside.
2) The healing you get is passive. Having a constant low regen would be just unnoticable, but a high one could be op in combat.
But in case of the Amputator, you only get the additional healing when the weapon is out, that's already a huge downside. The time you could be using to spread out heals and fire your primary is spent on doing nothing, that is a big deal that you want to be doing as little as possible. If you're being pocketed, using the weapon is already a downside, and if you're left alone (all your teammates are killed), having a slightly weaker melee weapon doesn't aid your survival.

Bottom line: Fix Amputator, maybe a constant 2hp/s heal while the weapon is out. Nerf Crossbow so it was only reasonable strong, and make Overdose's speedboost actually matter when it counts. Give it like a hype meter that you need to build up by healing, and activate by altfire to gain a short time speed and jump height buff that can be used with a medigun. And increase Stock Needlegun's projectile speed slightly, the Crossbow is currently the only reliable source of damage outside corridor warfare in comp play, altho logically Needlegun should normally outdamage it due to not having any additional abilities.

[jacobgrimes]

I hear the argument that Overwatch has a lot on tf2 when it comes to mechanics because its mechanics (like the crossbow and rocket jump) have been simplified to allow newer players to grasp them better. However, in my mind it's kinda silly to say something like that. It's pretty much saying "why would you have skill based movement to give better players an edge on the competition", or "why would a medic have to practice to get better when we could just make it easier so everyone can do it equally as well". It doesn't make sense to make movement and weapons equally easy for new players to use as those with experience. Part of being good at the game is the experience required to learn how to use great weapons or mechanics with high skill ceilings.

[SoldierTrax]

I think it's okay, in lower levels of play medics who don't really have much arrow skills just arrow still targets or on rollout, but they are still really effective with the medigun, so the crossbow is not really "hindering" the team by not using it in lower levels of play since you still get 90% of the same thing done, but instead rewards the player for getting better and progressing, which is why i think it's okay right now, even if technically the weapon can be considered OP.

If the crossbow could ONLY be applicable in skillful situations and those "i'll stand still so the medic arrows me" situations didn't exist that'd be maybe something to consider, but right now lower skilled medics still have a way to use it while being safe they're not gonna miss and contributing to the team, and they are rewarded more and more for learning how to use it and taking some risks with it as they progress, which i think a wonderful thing.

[jackobucko]

i don't really agree with this vid. making the game easier for the community to grow just isn't a worthy sacrifice. the reason i love this game so much is that you can't make some bullshit flukes and top the scoreboard, it takes real skill. That's the reason i haven't quit tf2 to go play overwatch where i can press a button to kill the entire enemy team, i would rather work for it. it's the reason i sit for hours on mge getting stomped by players who are way better and played way longer than me. i understand that small changes aren't going to affect gameplay overall but if the day comes where tf2 is an "easy game", im out.

[jakevansickle]

Its so sad that the world of esports is moving more towards instant gratification and less skill based gameplay.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but I would hope that instead of developers having to dumb down games and mechanics for this new audience, players would just care enough to actually take the time to get good. Like if the mindset of the gaming community was better, taking a few hundred hours to learn how to rocket jump should not really be a big deal.
Furthermore, highly skilled gameplay is so much better to watch and participate in than non skilled gameplay. Watching Overwatch is fun because of the way the game looks and is designed, which in my opinion is not why esports should be fun to watch. Though TF2 is not as pretty or instantly stimulating, the reasons it is fun to watch are much more valid; skilled gameplay and extreme depth in mechanics.

So while I concede that Slin is right about the direction of esports and competitive gaming, it saddens me greatly. I wish people would just care enough to want to be good.

[socialist-strong]

Competitive should be all about skill, and casual all about fun. Seems like a perfect system.

[DuckSwagington]

The other Syringe Guns are just bad in the first place. Stock you get slow and hard to aim needles that do no significant damage. The Blutsauger cuts down on your overall survivability and the Overdose is only useful in selfish situations which don't work in the 6s meta. Nerfing the crossbow will not make Medics primary weapon problem better, it would make it's worse. High skill ceiling games are popular in eports. CS:GO and Dota 2 are high skill ceiling games and they're really popular. And what's the problem which is *slightly* more powerful weapon that everyone loves. Also. Demo has two primarys as well. no one is complaining about that so why can't the Medic?

[goo_user]

Compared to xbow, syringe guns are not only weak but also incredibly boring. I'd rather only have the crossbow than 10 weapon choices, all of which suck. Maybe Valve needs to add different crossbows into the game, that way there will be both weapon diversity and also the weapons themselves would be interesting.

[zedacht]

Just make the crossbow a stock weapon.

[Black-bmwc]

since i started the game i love the crossbow, don't nerf it, you gonna break my dreams. instead bring back mirelin's overdose

[rabidtf]

i feel like the people that play comp tf, enjoy it because its so skillbased

[Yugilein]

I think the burst healing makes the Crossbow and Ana pretty powerful. They heal a way faster than a Medigun or Mercy can. I'd wish for a hp-based-healing so that both can be used equally.

[RajasVids]

tf2 is probably going to be the most popular high skill ceiling game for a long time. I like this, so I like the crossbow. game play diversity doesn't take a priority of having a high skill ceiling for me. might as well just play overwatch, no?

[karmawuv]

yeah i don't agree with a nerf. Maybe something else