British 1908 pattern sword and the Indian cavalry sabre in WW1: Cut vs thrust

[NecroBanana]

"It's really designed for heavy impact and penetration at high speed."

lennyface.jpg

[davidschlageter]

Yep. Although, in a general massed cavalry melee, heavy cavalry were assumed to have an advantage. If not for the straight vs. curved weapon, then the greater initial impact, larger men, , taller horses and (possibly) armor. Although when you look at the accounts of light v. heavy cavalry from Waterloo this was not the rule especially in individual combat.

"Just clear of the right of our line an encounter was witnessed between a cuirassier officer and a cadet answering to a volunteer in our service attached to one of the German light dragoon regiments of Dornberg's brigade The latter was retreating at speed before his antagonist with his head down on his horse's neck and his sword over his own neck The German cadet was watching his opportunity and on finding himself near his friends on the right of our line suddenly pulled his horse up upon his haunches and dealt the cuirassier a blow across his face, he wheeled round and engaged the cadet in single combat who managed to strike him again on his face so that he fell over on one side and was pierced under the arm and killed "

a lieutenant in the 7th QO Hussars mentions is a letter to his father:

"We charged twelve or fourteen times, and once cut off a squadron of cuirassiers, every man of whom we killed on the spot except the two officers and one Marshal de Logis, whom I sent to the rear".

and to an earlier video regarding a selective account of a Scotsman vs. French lancer in a melee... :)

"At Waterloo Sir Ponsonby together with his adjutant, Mjr Reignolds
made a dash to their own line, and a French lancer began pursuing them.
While they were crossing a plowed field, Ponsonby's horse got stuck
in the mud and in an instant, the lancer was upon him.
Ponsonby threw his saber away and surrendered.
Reignolds came to his aid, but the lancer compelled both of them
to dismount under the threat of his lance. At that moment, a group
of Scots Grays happened to pass a short distance away, saw the three
and galloped shouting in their direction with the idea of liberating
Sir Ponsonby. "In a flash, the Frenchman killed the general and his
major with 2 blows of his lance then charged the oncoming dragoons
striking down 3 in less than a minute. The others abandoned the combat
completely incapable of holding their own ..."
A. Barbero - "The Battle"

[RobThorntonSoloClimber]

Very fond of the Indian its a beautiful shape.

[minuteman]

I wonder if the fat that you were unlikely to encounter an enemy wearing multiple layer of heavy winter clothing in India made a difference in their sword design. I think I recall you saying that the British had issues in the Crimea with their sabers not being able to cut through Russian winter clothing.

[jordanreilly]

Some commenters have already mentioned the koncerz, an estoc-like sword used by Polish hussars. My understanding is that it too was a dedicated thrusting cavalry sword that was intended to be used much like the 1908-pattern sword. Perhaps you might discuss this in a future video.

[adam-k]

Damn, that Indian cavalry sabre is very nice. Pretty much my new favourite as swords goes.

[roystonito]

I'd love to see some cut tests with the Indian cavalry sabre used in WWI. I'm assuming it is an excellent performer, but curious how it fairs comparatively with the tulwar.

[Deedeedee]

Speaking of hybrid sword designs, have you ever owned a kyu guntō? It was the first Japanese military sword, and it has a really interesting shape.

[Altarahhn]

Great one, Matt! Now here's another (semi-related) question: Regarding the actual Medieval Estoc, how nimble was it in the point? Was more like the Rapier, the 1908 pattern sword, or more in between? Just curious.

[rasnac]

Where exactly is the POB for 1908. Looking at that narrow blade and that large guard, I assumed it was balanced similar to a rapier but apparently is not. And I still don't get if they wanted was basically a sharp steel bar, why British cavalry did not just use lances or some sort of steel short spear. :/

[dimitrizaitsew]

5:39
That poor guy on the far right.
War is truly hell.

[patio]

There is a documentary about ww1 british cavalry and one of the former cavalrymen talks about getting caught up in melee and having to slash and got down opponents.

[junichiroyamashita]

that saber vaguely reminds me of a kyu gunto

[Wanderer_of_Sol]

I had what I believe was a reproduction of that Indian cavalry sword for the longest time, and I did a bunch of research to try and figure out what it was. Now knowing that it didn't really have a name, it makes sense that I thought it was a Frankenstein repro. Blade from this maybe, guard from that... So thanks for shedding some light on that for me :)

[luisrivero]

Those pictures of the Indian cavalry also show them armed with lances. I guess they were prepared for both skirmishing and hit and run combat.

[alitahir]

Ohhhh love the Indian service pattern cavalry sabre. Where can I get this?

[rogerwilco]

The big question for me is: Were they right in choosing a pure trusting sword going into WW I? Was cavalry used like that, or did they end up doing a lot of skirmish after all?

[PJDAltamirus]

I would imagine than the greater hand protection and the thicker blade could actually made a the 1908 and withstand attacks quite well. If the user trained to compensate for it's sluggishness, I think it could actually have a better dueling against a rapier than the small sword you showed in the previous video would.

[thelonerider]

Matt, Between the 1908 & the curassieur (sorry for my spelling) swords, I have noticed that the straight thrusty cav. swords have almost always much longer blades. Is this a function of mass (i.e. there's an optimal weight, not too heavy not too light, and since it is narrower they can make it longer)? Or is it that there is a maximum effective length for a cutting sword and if you make it too long it becomes unweildly or hits the horse?
In other words, is the disparity based on the characteristics of the cutting sword, or the thrusting sword -- or both?

[Jacob-W-]

Matt could you make a video about the sabre/swords currently in use (even if it s only ceremonial) around the world, or in the UK/GB ? maybe compared to historical ones.