Unix cult (linux, suckless), a crime of computing industry. The Damages it has done

unix stuff start at 9:45

[momo-dmrw]

It is my pleasure to inform you that the title of your video has successfully radicalized me.

[alexanderkiselev]

`ps`??? For a very long time it's not a problem, there are:
1) `-ww` option.
2) the output is not truncated if the stdout is not a tty: try `ps <something> | cat`.
Uh. Huh. Since 2000, is saw no such problem with Red Hat Linux... I'm not familiar with Solaris though...


It's better to mention either outputting exactly `-e` by `echo` or differences in libc semantics among different UNIXes and patch sets (see FreeBSD ports) to work it around. And ah, I forgot: the UNIX file permissions (owning user/group / mode bits).

[priapushk]

40:21 "Fill their ass!" Didn't expect it to go kink.

[alexey]

57:10 - Who told you that C and C++ are "line-based" languages? Where did you get that from? Linebreaks and indentations do not have any logical meaning in C/C++ at all, they are used only for the sake of human readability and ignored by the compiler. "while (condition) doSomething();" is a valid code, you can even remove all linebreaks in your entire code, and it will compile and work fine, the only problem is that this code will look like an unreadable mess for you.

[RobinWils]

Even though I have seen his UNIX rants more than once. I always enjoy them.

[flip]

I won't like it, but I will watch. Thanks for the upload Xah!

[orbik_fin]

30:32 think the problem is an inevitable side effect of the whole typewriter- (or teleprinter-)based computing paradigm, created by hackers. A typewriter was designed to make clean text documents for humans to read, not for a computer program to sniff out and use as input.
An engineer would design a different protocol for producing visible output and making information available for another program. A hacker doesn't care, because it worked for his use case. Now we have to live with crazy hacks like "standard streams" (stdout, stdin, stderr) whose meaning may interchangeably be keyboard input, another program's I/O or a visual output device!

[gamerboy]

So, that's why you use windows, the 'most' secure operating system? lol
Well, other than that, I do like your emacs streams which is not going to change based on your opinion on Unix et al. But I have to admit I stopped watching this particular video when your hatred for Unix got a bit too much for me to take :-)

[tonpa]

Well put! I'm happy to see that at least one man on youtube has an education.

[sjatkins]

You can pry linux out of my cold dead hands. I have tremendous respect for you gennerally, Xah, but this was a load of nonsense, especially if you end up a Windows fanboy.

[hamesparde]

I3 WM is really good. It's not a suckless project but it is very minimal. I think there's something to be said for having a smaller code base (that being said I haven't watch the whole video.)

[timog]

“helping the world mentality creates the most evil” yes 100%

[henrymoss]

I agree with your criticism of the almost religious fanaticism towards Unix (there have always been fanatical groups around technologies, methods, tools, etc), but you mix topics that at some point in history ended up being related because Unix was a reference system.

Unix was a proprietary system, and it was created by scientists with knowledge in mathematics and physics, not as you suggest, people hacking without knowing what they were doing. For example, Dennies Ritchie was a graduate in physics and applied mathematics, Ken Thompson in electrical engineering and computer science, Brian Kernighan an engineer physicist and Ph.D in electronic engineering, and Douglas McIlroy a mathematician and engineer. In addition, Unix came out of Bell Labs, from a scientific and academic environment. And like any technology, it has its pros and cons.

In the context of GNU and the Linux kernel, Unix is mentioned because in a way it was a model to follow. Stallman wanted a system similar to Unix but free, even though he said GNU is not Unix, and on the other hand, Linus Torvalds wanted a cheap Unix system for PCs. Here you start mixing everything with irrelevant thoughts of Eric Raymond, whose greatest contribution to open source culture was writing some mediocre essays, fantasizing about being a "hacker, " and claiming to be a founder of the OSI.

"The Unix philosophy" was just a couple of precepts given the computational limitations of the time. Later, McIlroy (if I remember correctly) elaborated on it a bit, and that was it. From there came thoughts like simple, elegant design, etc.

Although you have some valid points, but I think more rigor is needed when analyzing the context from which Unix emerged. It seems strange to me your lack of rigor being a man who enjoys mathematics.

P.S: The ironic thing is that all the "hacker" idiocy originated at MIT with Richard Stallman and is from the TECO, Emacs, Emacs Lisp, Machine Lisp environment.

[alexanderkiselev]

Particular language semantics-aware diff would be great. The keyword is "Particular language".

[Turjak_art]

Nice to see a honest opinion, Thank you!👍The nice thing about Unix is that one person can understand the entire code. The one-user concept is also good, so I feel like the machine and system belong to me.

[ReeSoo_]

Even though I don't have great respect for Unix, I don't think truncation isn't all that bad.

[TheHelvetican]

I like my screens as suckless as possible.

[HolofractalUniverse]

Same with the C programming language, the worst languge in computing history. Like with UNIX, C is plagued with all sorts of horror problems which never get fixed ever. It gets extremely popular and cannot easily die off.

[cherryramatis]

I like having a job so I learn and use Unix, simple as that

[moeabdol_]

I don't understand your logic behind the hate for unix/linux...regardless, I respect your strong preferences....to all his taste
Unix came out before any os and would defiantly be insecure at the time as the community was focused on building and sharing which still holds until today.
unix/linux is not a hack....linux technology powers the backbone of the Internet and enterprises big and small.
There are bad apples in the community and hot-headed fanatics I agree; however, our choices of good technologies transcends all that bull crap.
everything about technology is Jargon...people who are not mere users are nerds and we are all part of that cult....its easy to diss unix, its philosophy or anything for that matter without mentioning what you think is a better os/philosophy. cheers