Will Barlow - The 'Throne Room Problem' - Responding to Trinitarian Claims about John 12:41

Some Trinitarian apologists and commentators, including Dr. James White, claim that Jesus is identified as Yahweh in John 12:41. To do so, White appeals to the throne room scene in Isaiah 6.

In this presentation from the 2024 UCA Conference, Will Barlow (Pastor of Compass Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky) shows that a careful consideration of every throne room scene in the Bible will show that there is always only one Supreme Divine Figure on the throne.

This Supreme Divine Figure is defined throughout scripture as the Father. This “throne room problem” effectively refutes White’s interpretation of John 12:41 and actually distinguishes Jesus from Yahweh.

[AaronGardner]

A very good presentation. I am not yet a fully convinced biblical unitarian, though I am definitely a subordinationist. I consider William a friend, and he has been very kind to video chat with me on multiple occasions to discuss unitarian concepts with me. I appreciate and admire him.

[coreyevans]

21 minutes in and am very pleased with the logical conclusions so far.
Analyze the Throne Room scenes from the entirety of scripture and deduce a conclusion from those scenes.
Absolutely brilliant exegesis so far.

[larrythrasher]

Excellent. James White is an amazing example of the complete blindness of traditionalists. Pray for him.

[Beganagain]

This is excellent. Very fine work. Thank you!

[aaroningram]

This was excellent. You explained something I've been trying to articulate for a while now. When someone tries to say that Jesus is Yahweh they are accidentally making an argument for modalism. I'm definitely borrowing from this if the conversation ever comes up. Great work.

[mn]

I really enjoyed this presentation, thanks Will!

[patrickbiglane]

This is Patrick, but not the Modelist…lol. Thanks for the simplicity and clear reasoning in this presentation Will

[johnrichardson]

Very good talk. Makes complete sense.
Just one small note: at around 5 minutes 10 seconds, Will says: 'all commentators, Unitarian and Christian alike', as though Unitarians are not Christians. This was just a slip, obviously!

[socketman]

"that's modalism Patrick" - haha nice one

[Steelblaidd]

This looks like it would benefit from interacting with Dr. Michael Heiser's work on the Devine Council.

[taibiservent]

Will...great prezi....can you share what AI program you used to generate those images?

[VoiceofTruth-ivpq]

Where can we find a copy of the paper?

I often ask my Trinitarian friends why the person of the Holy Spirit is always missing from throne room scenes. Is his absence not an insult to the third 'person' of the Godhead? Is he just shy ?

I also ask why, from the very opening words of Revelation, is Jesus depicted as one other than God.

[ken]

Will, you speak of pslm110 as the root of this "sit at right hand" issue.
I would say the whole concept of subordination to throne authority to be rooted in Genesis, with Joseph raised and given Pharaohs authority and given mandate to rule the kingdom of Egypt as Pharaohs "right hand man." Indeed as a trinitarian in my younger life I used to wonder just what the hype was, about Joseph and his striped coat and mistreatment at the hands of his BROTHERS and then to become the 2iC of Egypt. I now see it as an outstanding foreshadow, one that shows the lack of regal family connection that got him the job. And it was for a time of trouble ahead, just as Jesus returns, kicks out and defeats the rebellion of angelic enemies on earth, and sets things to rights, before handing it all back to God (1cor15:28)

[Bennyelohim]

How do we deal with scriptures in revelation 22:1, 3 where its the throne of God and the lamb, one throne

[εἷςἀλήθεια]

Not a fan of these images, but the presentation of scripture was excellent 💛

[DETench]

In the AI generated image for Revelation 5:6-14, it looks like God is about to enjoy some cotton candy!

[PropheticPlaces-rmlp]

- Thank You
I've Been Discussing This Same Topic With A Podcaster.

And I Am Glad To No Longer Be
A Protestant Of The Re-Form-Mation Of Catholic Doctrine.

No Longer Keeping Their Catholic Saint Days Of,

- Saint Valentine's Day,

- Saint Patrick's Day,

- Nor Easter Of Yeshua Being "the passover lamb"
(Which Wasn't Meant For Taking Away Sin),

- Or All Saints Day Of The Catholic Dead
(Protestant Halloween),

- Nor *HO, HO, HO, Mary-Kris-Mass
From Kris Kringle The Catholic Saint Nick*

And Neither Am I Their Tithe Paying Trinitarian Anymore Either.
Cutting The Strangling Apron Strings Of Their "Mother Church"
Has Set Me Free The Religious Agendas Of Men.

[Christus-totalis]

No scene in bible where all three are seen ??? Luke 3:21 "and while he was prayed the Heaven was opened, the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon him and a voice in heaven which said "You are my beloved son; in you I am well pleased"

[Christus-totalis]

Jesus never sits on the throne and No holy Spirit ??? He is in the midst of the throne Revelation 7:15-17 " for the Lamb who is in the center of the throne....and lead them to living fountains of waters"

“On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this, he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.” John 7:37-39

come on guys anyone can find these scriptures.

[michaeltupek]

Both James White's and William Barlow's interpretation of John 12:41 is incorrect for these reasons:
[1] The context and quote especially in verse 40 is an unmistakable clue to the theophany of Isaiah chapter 6:1-13. Not only does the prophet speak of Yahweh's glory (as a single person on the throne) in vv 1-4 but also the angels are quoted as singing of Yahweh's glory in v 3. Therefore, it is not the “ironic glory” of the Servant in Isaiah 53.
[2] In the Greek of the passage in John 12:41, there is no mention of “Jesus” as being the person whose glory the prophet saw (as a supposed pre-natal Christophany or vision of the Messiah). It is only the glory of Yahweh that the prophet saw.
[3] But John, as usual according to his whole unique Gospel account, declares by intimation the location of Yahweh (God the Father of Israel) embodied in the human person of Jesus. This is confirmed in many places in the Gospel beginning with the opening statement that the Word was God in John 1:1c. This is more immediately confirmed by the next statement of Jesus that “The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me” (v 45).
[4] The glory of Yahweh was given to Jesus especially after his resurrection and with his exaltation to be seated at the right hand of God (John 5:19-30; 7:39; 8:54; 13:31-32; 17:1-5, 11-12, 24; Phil 2:9-11; Heb 2:9: Rev 5:6-14).