Degrowth and Ecosocialism | Jason Hickel

Economic anthropologist, Jason Hickel, is one of the leading degrowth researchers leading the charge for ecosocialism. He says if we limit the energy demands of the elite and hungry multinational corporations, reimagining economics to support and nurture human dignity, we could stay within our planetary boundaries—and lift the entire world out of poverty.

Degrowth proves putting people over profit would be good for the planet. Some of the most exciting policies include shortening the work week, providing universal basic services, and redistributing income. As we discuss, it’s a form of environmentalism that could join forces with the labour movement to dictate massive, sweeping global changes that could provide a better quality of life for every living being on earth.

#democracy #politics #ecology #education #degrowth #environmentalism #ecosocialism

© Rachel Donald

[joepvandijk]

I'm thinking of one of the "yellow vests'" slogans from the 2010s: Fin du mois, fin de la planète, même combat - End of the month, end of the planet, same struggle.

[jthadcast]

of all your interviews, Jason was the most successful and inspiring a trace of hope in this doomer. right up to the point of requiring capital to suspend its hegemony on growth, intergenerational wealth, and property rights ( ... bloody hell).

[leskuzyk]

With twenty years of playing with the games people play -- whatever form of denial -- I find Jason Hickel's presentations to be highly uplifting. On the off chance we pick up on the reality he so well describes.

[zacharyb]

its not just rich countries, its the rich in the rich countries.

[bistrovogna]

Degrowth is the answer. All the green movements and activist groups we have right now are basically pieces of the degrowth picture. Permaculture, localize movement, XR, FFF, Transition Towns, circular economy, minimalist movement, zero waste movement, Deep Adaptation, Universal Basic Services, open source information sharing etc are the ways degrowth is expressed, and will hopefully coalesce into locally and global meaningful degrowth politics.

I think it would be fair to people to explain what Steinberger's research means by sufficiency. We're talking 15 sqm heated space per person (plus 20sqm per unit), 1 laptop per household, maximum 15000 km travel preferably collective, 4 kg new clothing per year etc. It is early days for this specific kind of research (quantifying in such a detailed way), but it is already very helpful as a baseline understanding for us all.

The background to start thinking about all of this is the understanding of limits to growth, overshoot, ecological footprint etc, your earlier interviews naturally leads to degrowth as solution.

[summondadrummin]

I think powerdown is possibly a better word then degrowth? A planet filled with a vast variety of Eco Villages provides an Image of what it could take to achieve this

[steve]

It's not just that "renewables" require more energy on a continuing basis because of resource extraction to make them, but this grid of transmission lines required for larger solar and wind farms does not yet exist. And THAT system is a major energy and resources drain as well. And there has been discussions about expanding this grid WORLDWIDE. So "renewables" owned by major corporations is only a pretext for ever more consumption and not about reducing energy consumption in ANY way.

[rapauli]

Oh this is such a great interview. Thank you.

[andrewnelson]

How will we decide what parts of the economy are not necessary for human flourishing?

[rafal]

Great book end to recent New Discourses video on degrowth.

[chikuwa-fv]

Thank you very much for the great interview.

I'm very interested in this issue after I happened to pick it up that the book 'LESS IS MORE' translated in Japanese issued on May 2023.
As you know, the original book was issued in 2020, that means almost Japanese didn't have a chance to know your opinion until 2023.

In addition, I've clearly understood that the reason why almost mass medium in Japan don't take your theory. It's because they also are kept alive by capitalists and your opinion is very inconvenient for capitalists.


I realized that those theories related to ecosocialism have not introduced to Japanese, and therefore unfortunately we, Japanese don't know and don't understand why a lot of people are taking extreme actions, like Greta Ernman Thunberg and her supporters and like people who blocked roads to stop cars in Germany, and so on.

I worry about even if a lot of Japanese understand this theory, they might not support it as Japanese is both laborers and capitalists. That is because the reason elderly persons can get public pension is thanks to be invested funs in market.

So I believe whether this theory will be supported or not in Japan depends on whether we can find and show a new and concrete image of society that we can feel peace of mind without system like that.

And I think the biggest problem is that young people are falling into the 'cultural hegemony' (Mr. Hickel said in the book) by education not only school but also mass medium.

Therefore, I believe our task is to find how to spread your theory and how to create mind to create details for this society which makes almost people happy.
I think the strategy to put into practice it could find in any knowledge which was written by great predecessors.

[WilsonCC]

Regarding the resources required for electrification, there is also the view (hopefully true) that we'll need fewer resources for "fossil fuel replacements" because electrical systems are more efficient.

Discussed in "Just Have a Think" July 2, 2023 YouTube episode entitled Have we got enough minerals? The video references Michael Barnard who wrote the article Why Aren't Energy Flows Diagrams Used More to Inform Decarbonization which suggests "The primary energy fallacy is the assumption that all of the energy in all of the oil, gas and coal we burn today must be replaced. We don’t need to replace it, we need to replace the unwasted energy services."

[panzerkind]

To the bit about renewables, I am a power systems engineer specializing in plant control and power systems modelling for large-scale renewables.

In my opinion, renewables are a technologically superior form of power generation when compared to traditional generation, and building a 100% renewable grid is totally feasible, and with the addition of about 20% or so of the grid being a backbone of nuclear, it becomes much easier even.

We need to nationalize our energy grid and plan generation resources, load centers, and transmission infrastructure on the highest level. Much of the inefficiency right now in my opinion comes from having a system of numerous private developers, owners, and utilities, all competing to maximize their individual profits and not prioritizing efficient use of resources on the level of the grid as a single system.

[nightoftheworld]

3:52 And just as GDP as a general measure can’t capture class disparities, it is a similar story for resource usage here. The wealthy/the elite/corporations are the ones who use the most in this country. There should be distinctions made here because it is not truly a picture of _everyone in the west is equally responsible for this._

(Edit: later on he makes this point)

[trenomas]

Bring on Vandana Shiva. Masterful advocate.

[lowkeylikeLoki]

Great guest and interview, and I'll really glad you pushed back on the so-called "renewables" really being just "rebuildable" - if more interviewers followed your lead, we can hopefully move on from this too often repeated naive sentiment that solar panels/windmills are the key to a bright "sustainable" future.

[toadster_strudel]

I just wish guys like Jason Hickel has as much of a voice as naive optimists like Steven Pinker.

[antonionalesnik]

37:31 were you just talking about yourself and your plans?! 😆 🤣 😅😂

[StonedApe]

So basicaly he wants to "End the FED"

[Mezog]

46:10 The definition at this point in the video is wrong. We have central banking which creates debt that has to be paid back. If we remove central banking what is the effect on capitalism. Someone must of answered this question.