Has Flat Rate Caused The Automotive Tech Shortage

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[mattlenz]

Warranty work is what really breaks the flat rate system and favoritism. The industry in my opinion deserves what it gets.

[Drunkis]

Unrealistic times from manufactures on warranty repairs and paying close to nothing for electrical diagnosis from the manufacturer is also a contributing factor.

[MG]

Flat rate has dropped from 40%-50% down to 10%-20%. I'm 46 and when I was 20 I was making 40%. Today it's dropped to 10%-20% but shop rates went up and the service writers make more than the specialist with a fortune in tools (technician)and all the service writters have is a mouth. Those are the 2 biggest reasons.

[josesegura]

Flate rate is a scam, waste of time I invested in the auto trade. I love the ppl I met thru the years, all great ppl that deserves better

[mikemurphy]

I was a master BMW tech in the 1990s. At the time, I was part of a special training program at BMW North America and our class of 7 had more training than all other techs in the entire country. 6 months of nonstop BMW training 8 hours a day. Same classroom hours as a bachelor's degree..

Skip ahead, I became the "Diagnostician" at the dealer. I got a higher hourly salary than guys that were there for over 20 years, but I never got major services, brakes, etc, only electrical issues. Even with a higher hourly salary the morons who only did brakes and service made substantially more money with zero training. After years of this, I decided this industry was a waste of my time unless I opened up my own shop. At the time, BMW made it impossible to get their diagnostic equipment, so the decision was to just leave the industry altogether.

30 years later and nothing has changed nothing. Glad I got out

[ghostwrench]

Flat rate is a problem for me. I’m tired of being pushed to do a job in the warranty labor time only to have to write a thorough story to maximize the pay and then sort, account for and turn the warranty parts to the parts department. I can usually do the job in the time but the rest of the stuff can easy add another hour or more to the job. Time we’re not paid for. I’m at an hourly shop now and a dealer service manager got in touch with me. I told him unless you’re offering something other than flat rate, I’m not interested.

[nick_ashley]

I think you're spot on here. Flat rate can work fine and is great when it does. Unfortunately at my last job, working 45 hours and flagging 30 week after week just ruined working on cars for me. I found a job working on school buses at a 10% hourly raise but I'm making 40% more on each check just by virtue of being paid hourly. Plus my commute time was reduced by 90% since the new place is 5 minutes from my house

[crispincoleman]

Between constant warranty work that paid next to nothing and our shop being slow I walked away from the industry. Was fed up with going to work for 50 hours a week and getting paid for 25 to 35 hours. In my opinion there's better skilled labor jobs out there that will properly compensate you for your time. Any tech worth their salt is more than capable of doing them.

[YourTransmissionRepair]

The antiquated flat rate system promotes an adversarial relationship between techs and management. I worked flat rate for one year and that was the first and last time for me.

[jaydotseedot]

I’ve said it many times if we get back to 50/50 flat rate I’ll come back to automotive. Until then I will work on turf equipment with more time off then I can use. M-F, I start at 5am done at 1:30 rest of the day to work on the side, relax in the pool, quality time with the family, way less stressful then automotive.

[bluelightguy]

The fact that the door rate to tech rate is less then 50/50 is a huge factor

[MrSteve]

If you like the flat rate you have bought into the system that only protects the shop owner. Look at ANY other blue-collar job and the amount or skills a mechanic has to have more! Yet we get the lowest pay. We could work construction or building apprenticeship work and do better.

[puremayhemFTW]

When I worked in the dealership I was flat rate and I made tons of money! No way I would ever work hourly in the dealer. But now I’m at an independent shop and there is absolutely no way I would survive if I wasn’t hourly. You can’t beat the clock when everything is rusted and breaking.

[autofox.]

I got the biggest kick in the pants at my old dealership. I was a general tech and work was slow so I was handed a used car inspection. It was a subaru and it needed head gaskets. I priced the job to the owner of the dealership and he blew up at his own shop rate! He sent it down the road to a local shop that charged less than He was charging customers. It would have been a pretty good job for me to have gotten on flat rate. I am no longer in the automotive business at all.

[jonyoung]

I was a new tech in the mid 90s. I had to turn down the company health insurance be because it cost a weeks wages . I was once given a 15 year old mini van to troubleshoot electrical problems. The wiring harness had 10 years worth of DIY molestation . The senior techs were busy knocking out obvious R&R jobs.This was at a Chrysler dealership. Yes I was studying every night . I was exhausted and poor at the same time .

[jaredjared]

Professional automotive technicians are finally waking up and refusing to be paid like it's 1975.

Before we start, this is the pay rate for Journeyman technicians, which means these are licensed and proper technicians that have completed their apprenticeship and have passed their trade's certification test, akin to passing the Bar exam for a lawyer, for a strict 40-hour workweek with no overtime, with 50-weeks paid per year. (Vacation time for trades is so rare that I'm not including 2-weeks of paid vacation here.)

Please also keep in mind the following professions are paid hourly, regardless of billable time. This means that from the time you "Clock-in" to the time you "Clock-out" you are being paid for your time as opposed to vehicle technicians who are paid "flat-rate (In the USA) meaning they are paid a a set amount to diagnose, a certain amount to repair, and a certain amount to perform general service that does not pay them for the time to "grab" a new job, find the vehicle, commonly not even test drive the vehicle, drive the "job" to their work area, test-drive "or quality-check" their work (this could mean not checking their brake repair that you're about to put your family in for a road trip), nor does it pay them to park the "job" and walk back to repeat the process over again.
Opposed to the below trades that pay you from the time you "Clock-in" to the time you "Clock-out" even if you need 20-minutes to poo, these following trades pay you for that, but not automotive...

HVAC - $30.00 to $50.00 per hour, HOURLY. $60, 000- $100, 000+ - Tool investment - $250.00 to $2, 000
Plumber - $25.00 to $45.00 per hour, HOURLY. $55, 000 - $90.000+ - Tool investment - $250.00 to $4, 500 (PEX tooling is not cheap)
Electrician - $30.00 to $60.00 per hour, HOURLY. $60, 000 - $120, 000+ - Tool investment - $250.00 to $1, 500
An automotive technician must be competent in all of those trades to properly do their job.
Automotive Technician - $18.00 to $40.00, FLAT-RATE. $25, 000 to $100, 000+* - Tool investment - $10, 000 to $65, 000+ (You are always buying tools because cars are always changing. It is common to spend $2, 000 to $6, 000 PER YEAR on new tools because they are required for you to keep working.)

The other trades don't have the same liability nor responsibilities. "Oh, your toilet didn't flush? Well, did anyone die?" Oh, your kitchen lights don't work? Well, did anyone die?" "Oh, your brakes failed? How many died?"

*Depending on quantity and type of job. E.G. Replacing brakes all day, everyday will pay more. Diagnosing complex electrical issues all day, every day while being the most skilled and educated technician in the shop will pay less due to more time spent on the job than you have been allotted.

It's not difficult to see why automotive technicians are quitting.

[joshruner]

I have nothing against flat rate or hourly, there is pros and cons in both. What I have and issue with is master techs or "Brand" certified master techs getting screwed by the increase in complicated systems that can take hours to figure out and get payed less then fluid guys. Now what is the solution to this? Start a timer and then bill after completion? Hit the customer with a $500 bill with no repair(that can turn into a $600 module+ $200 labor for programing)? I have seen that as Technicians we play a important role in are communities, that seems no one can afford anymore.

[TylerRivera]

Everything you said in this video sums up how I feel. I’m a younger tech and finally got my service manager to take me off flat rate for a salary based pay with incentive after talking it over for months. It’s worked out well for me and I still produce what I need to produce. Our shop is one of those that abuses flat rate unfortunately, not just for the new guys but the older guys as well.

[igotaction]

BMW and Mercedes engine builder/diagnostician here, the #1 problem is the complexity of the vehicles. CANBus, ISO protocols, flexray, etc. are engineer level problems and engineers make six figures. Very very very few techs have the capability to look up wiring diagrams and concept of operation documentation to develop a test plan. THEN you have the problem of who pays for that level of skill and the time that it takes. NEXT book times way underestimate actual times where in the 90s 2000s they did not. FINALLY the cost of all the computer related side of repair has gone up exponentially higher than pay. ✌️

[Aaron-orov]

Before I left as an auto tech, manufacturers cut labor times on so many jobs to screw over the techs. The issues has become there is no more decent paying maintenance jobs that techs use to make money. These newer vehicles don’t need maintenance until 90-100k now. Before at Toyota a 60k with timing belt paid great. Up sell water pump, seals and that’s a great ticket. Those days are gone now. Now it’s replace spark plugs and coolant for 2.0 hours if that and back to warranty. Brakes depending on how the customers drive will last a very long time now. That paid 1.5-2.0 depending on the shop your in. So there is not a lack of cars to work on but a lack of hours to be made on the cars. If your at the shop for 40-50 hours a week and only make 35-40 your not going to make it.