Storytelling In Games, And Why 'Fan' Opinions Don't Matter

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[PseronWyrd]

Exactly. I was just about to mention that Tolkien continued to change the lore of Middle Earth to the end of his life. I'm glad you mentioned it.

[oklaftrahlegne]

It's very simple: fans do not have the right to tell the creatives what they HAVE to do. At the same time the creatives do not have the right to tell the fans what they HAVE to consume.

The creatives provide a product, if they ignore what the fans want then the product will not sell. I'm not interested in anything with the label "Star Wars" anymore, have not bought a game watched a show or movie of it in years. That's my right as a consumer. I'm not ride or die with a franchise, I'm not "along for the ride" unless I'm interested in what the ride has to offer.

There has been too much good entertainment released in the last... well, hundreds to thousands of years to deal with terrible creatives and their non-entertaining content.

[SilvioManfredDante]

This waffle can be summed up with, "don't ask questions, just consoom slop and get excited for the next iteration of slop."

[ehutuk]

TLOU 2 is what comes to mind as the most recent example of where “fans” opinion and the quality of the story/game is like the biggest proof of why it doesn’t matter. Just because they didn’t like Joel dying doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense or makes the story any worse, just different from expectations of some people who got too attached to Joel, which if you really think about it was no better or worse than some of the characters that got hated on.

[Stilloffside]

No story is linear. Characters evolve, and those evolutions often deviate from the original plan or arc. Authors are NEVER bound to keep their creations on a path.

[proteuswest]

I know that Jurassic Park the book and the script for Jurassic Park the film were both written by Michael Crichton, and there are major changes between the two. I've also heard that Crichton looked at the film as an opportunity to write some elements differently that he regretted after the book had been published.

What a lot of non-creative consumers don't realize is that the only thing that keeps authors or creatives from continuously editing or modifying or honing their work is a desire to move on to other projects, or a push from outside sources who want to publish and profit. And if consumers saw what a work begins as before it is revised and edited, but after it is drafted, they would be shocked at how much it changes.

[XiLock_Alotx]

I really think over the past few weeks you have bought something to contact creation, specifically in regards to the gaming industry we as consumers don’t get to watch very often or hear about. More recently with the Witcher “arguments“. Just wanted to say, I truly appreciate this Type of content and I’m glad that we have a voice on YouTube for it. I’m sure you’re not the only one, you’re just the only one that I watch

[Lupinemancer]

I agree that authors should tell the story they want, regardless of how fans feels. But, having said that, since you are dependant on them buying your product, you should at least try to make an effort to write a story they'll enjoy.

[amdremer]

I'm fine with the actual author tweaking things, and for IP license holders to make an adaptation (ie: witcher games) to tweak things for their game/movie, that's understandable and I take it with a grain of salt. But for the companies (Disney) that buy up franchises and then change them to suit their politics, I think they deserve to have the crap they put out to be trashed like the dogshit it is.

So you say that makes me no longer a fan of Star Wars, and you're right. Star Wars was my absolute favorite IP for over 25 years of my life, read and reread nearly 100 of the novels, played many of the games (spent years in the MMORPGs Star Wars Galaxies & SWOTOR), rewatched the movies yearly. It was a huge part of my life. After the crap Disney put out (sure there were a couple good ones, but most of it is dogshit), I finally realized I was no longer a fan, and it hurt like I had lost a family member. So maybe that makes me a hater now, but at least I can be honest about what I like and dislike. Even though it doesn't matter to anyone, at least I can be true to myself.

[alexwood]

Idk who you are or how yhis ended up in my playlist but you nailed it man.

[MrJCarter]

Exactly! I fully agree with this take, fans can have opinions on an author style of storytelling but the actual content or lore is author’s sole responsibility because it’s their work. They can listen to feedback of course but pushing back against a particular choice because fans have decided it shouldn’t be canon based on their own subjective preferences is dumb

[ract]

I haven't read the Witcher novels (started to, but couldn't get into them), and I haven't played completely through the Witcher games (started each one of them - more than once - but never completed the game), but from what I have read on-line and what I've been told from people I know that have read the books and completed the games, while traditionally Witchers are male because the Trials of the Grasses, which are the brutal and often deadly processes that transform someone into a Witcher, are conducted on young boys, there is nothing in the books that explicitly stated that only men can be Witchers. I don't see how Ciri being the main protagonist of the next Witcher game breaks from the canon.

[nonamegiven]

yep mostly agree, like I'll argue that good faith/respect for the past writers' stories when licensing does matter in terms of authorial authority but that's on the level of making a pre-existing autistic character "out grow" said character defining autism or Super Mario Bros (1993) just making Nintendo go "no" to movies for 3 whole decades.
Granted that also has little to do with fan side of this.

[kRispy_dwight]

Heyooo shout out to the dark tower series. Currently on book 4 and loving it

[lauradeneault]

"All the fans can do is go along for the ride" Not true lol. They can just stop buying the product if they don't like it anymore. That will have much more impact on creators than any fans whining 😂😂

[LadyRhi_]

I think this is something very important for fans to keep in mind, especially in media (like gaming) where we, as fans, are invited in to make RPG 'decisions' that feel like they affect the world and story. No matter what, though, we don't have ownership over anything but our personal headcanons. That's where some of the best fanworks come from! The danger is that some will take their sense of ownership over their own character's story arc and conflate it with the story of the game itself. Then you end up with fans yelling at devs, roasting them for getting the story wrong, disrespecting characters, mocking the fanbase, or even hating their own story. It can get truly bizarre. True, sometimes the writers goof up and end up with a genuine mistake, but it's typically not anywhere near as prevalent as players make it out to be. Veilguard is a great example of this situation, especially with how the writers have worked unreliable narrators and perspectives into the narrative throughout the series. As a result, there's a portion of criticism aimed at the game's writers for retcons/mistakes when the revelations under scrutiny are really just new insights, new information affecting interpretations, and even new layers of potentially unreliable perspectives coming into the mix. It's part of the storytelling process and a means of immersing players into the world, but because it's a deliberate challenge to figure out what is truth and what is either false or undefinable based on where the story is at this point, RPG devs often get a lot of heat. It's one thing to point to something that may not necessarily make sense, but it's another to claim the devs have 'lost their rights' and demand writers be fired. At the end of the day, the story of the game, movie, or what have you isn't owned by anyone but its creators -- actual mistakes or intentional mysteries included. They can never write it to appeal to each individual fan's personal take and desires for where things go, but they can write the story that only they know the true form of. Because it's their story, not ours.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this!

[johnlee]

OMG YES THANK YOU. "Along for the ride" is the perfect metaphor. Why is it so hard for "fans" to understand that they don't get to make creative decisions? And even if they did, their ideas just aren't that good?

[rtgh]

The customer is right if you want them to buy it. But if you don’t care about money do what you want.

[uniderp]

I'd agree if a storyline is kept by it's original "cast of creators" and/or by further creators that actually "care" about said story, but, i'm afraid, that's not allways the case, when it's not, that's when I disagree.
It's not all black and white.

For example, IF a story gets "gifted" to new writers/devs/ceos/producers/artists, whoever, well "some" of those might not have passion/love for the project, sometimes they lack respect/love for the original writers, for the fans, for the characters, for the environments, for the politics, for the religious settings, for all sort of things, sometimes it's even the original creator/s who loses it's passion for it and moves on or "sells" the ip, when this happens but the ip is still alive, what happens then?
In those circumstances I'd agree that the last say is "unfortunatly" allways the one of those "owning" the ip but it might not be a genuine, love for the story anymore, depending on the circumstances of course.

I'd say that people not directly involved with the production of a story (this doesn't just mean fans), when passionate, when they elaborate properly, are not just driven by rage or personal opinions or other selfish purposes, might actually, at times, have better takes than some people actually working on the project, IF those "owners" are detatched from the project for certain reasons and again, i'm afraid it happens!!!, it's not just all black and white.

In short, the opinions of many "MIGHT" matter, based on set circumstances and how a story evolves as time passes/whose hands it ends up in.

[timneedham]

I'll admit; I was originally not onboard with the depiction of Arwen in fellowship of the ring. The whole warrior personality because " she held a sword." I admit I overreacted at the time; and came to realize it's an adaptation that did nothing to change the lore I know and love