B-17 Crew Tour of Duty Requirements and Loss Rates

Enclosed is a discussion of WWII B-17 bomber loss rates and how the attrition rates affected the crew members tour of duty.

[Thedaleb]

My great uncle Lynn Blue was a B-17 pilot did his 25 missions and stayed to do even more, he survived the war. These bomber crews were so incredibly brave.

[jnauttube]

My father was a navigator aboard a b17. He was shot down on his fourth mission during the infamous Munster raid. He spent the rest of the war in Stalag Luft one and was liberated by the Russians at the end of the war. He was a member of the infamous "bloody 100th" bomb group.

[Thxsober]

To hell with that, I'm going to get in one of those nice safe jobs on a U-boat.

[rickvia]

Great research. My Dad flew Ball Turret w/ 50 missions aggregated from 259 operational hours in combat w/ the 15th out of Foggia, Italy from Jan. - June 1944.

[AN-cwyg]

Love your channel. Very interesting. My grandpa did 22 Missions on a B24. He was a waist gunner . He was in the 448th Bombardment Group/714th Bombardment Squadron/8th Airforce. On 1/16/45 they were hit by Flak and crash landed in a Park in France. Then on 1/28/45 on a mission to Dortmund they were hit by FLAK and crash landed again. Both times no one was seriously injured. He did get hit my a small piece of FLAK in his face but it was very minor. He didn't get a Purple Heart. Later on in life, we was terrified of going on planes. He would close his eyes the whole time on a flight. Then finally, when he watched the Memphis Bell movie, he got PTSD really bad. From a little research, the last surviving member of his crew passed in 2008.

[banalMinuta]

Dude just found this channel, you deserve a sub more than almost anyone I've found in recent memory. Best of luck my dude!

[JK-rvtp]

Fascinating stuff! My dad was a pilot officer flying Dakotas (C-47s) for the Royal Canadian Air Force in Burma, part of the Combat Cargo Task Force created to support the British 14th Army's drive on Mandalay. They were based at Imphal just inside India, and flew missions into the Irawaddy River basin in central Burma, a mix of combat air drops to British/Indian troops at the front line, and trips into forward airstrips just behind the lines. They were bounced by Japanese Oscars once, with several Dakotas shot down at a combat drop zone near a town called Schwebo. Beyond that the risks were mostly Japanese light AAA, the weather, and the jungle mountain ranges that lay between Imphal and Central Burma. Less dangerous in the scheme of things than driving a B-17, but he did 165 sorties, of which maybe 3/4 were combat support missions in Burma, the rest being cargo trips to other places in India. He came home and never flew again.

[NathanDudani]

One of the best ww2 allied aviation channel on this platform!

[alexbonner]

My uncle joined the Army Air Corp as a nineteen-year-old private in 1939. He arrived at Manila PI on October 25, 1941 in a troop ship after a nearly six week, five thousand mile trip. He was designated as a ‘gunner’ for the new contingent of B, C or D version B17 Bombers that had been rushed to the South Pacific. Most likely, he had limited, if any, training or flying experience in those early days when resources were limited and facilities at Clark AFB were primitive to say the least. Clearly, those early versions of the B17 contributed to the high loss rates. Excellent information on the various versions can be found at Wikipedia. It should be kept in mind that the B, C, and D versions did not have the dorsal or the tail guns. These and other deficiencies were addressed in the later E, F, and G versions of the Flying Fortress.



Also, your video entitled “B17 Bomber Crew Member Gear” is exceptional. It must be viewed to fully understand the technology of that era and the B17s themselves. In today’s world, we get on an airplane, sit in a somewhat comfortable seat, put on a seat belt, and expect service from a host or hostess. That was not what the B17 offered and the primitive efforts to deal with the environment, especially in early B17 versions must have had a lot to do with the early and poor crew loss rates. In essence, it was an incredible effort to learn as you go and adjust as needed for a product that was first developed and built in the late 1930s.




Finally, my uncle survived the bombing runs by the Imperial Japanese Air Force as they attacked Clark AFB around lunch time on December 8, 1941 and only a few hours after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. He made it back home in 1945, retired as a full colonel, and is buried at Arlington Natl. Cemetery. The book to read about those early days of the WWII in the Pacific was written by Walter Edmonds and entitled "They Fought With What They Had". Finally, your videos about the B17s are exceptional and fascinating and they really help to understand what happened in those days and why.

[judebug]

My father referred to flak as “ack-ack.” It was so heavy it would darken the skies as they flew through it.

[tomadams]

My father was a B-17 copilot in the 8th AF at Snetterton Heath in 1944. He survived the Frantic II disaster at Poltava, Ukraine, when 100+ B-17s were destroyed on the ground by Luftwaffe bombing, completed his 35 missions, returned to the US, and was discharged from the USAAF at Luke AB in AZ before VJ day.

I attended several 8th AF reunions with him in the 1990's. I got the impression that about 50% of the Veterans attending the reunions had been shot down and became German POWs. This led me to the conclusion that roughly 1/3 of the crews completed their tours, 1/3 were short down and captured, and 1/3 were killed.

Thank you for your in-depth reviews of the evidence from WWII. Well done! I'm sure you;ve looked at the post-war bombing survey reports. I found it interesting that German military production actually increased in 1943 and 1944 because bombing destroyed civilian services - shops, groceries, restaurants, entertainment, etc and freed up their workers for war production.

[TCK]

Very interesting series of B17 videos. 🙏 Thanks.

[McRocket]

Fascinating stuff.
I had NO idea flak was that effective.
Thank you.

These statistics make me think that the 8'th and 15'th air forces after October '44, might have been smarter to leave more of their crew and defensive guns at home during missions from this point onwards.
The weight saving and aerodynamic gains from removing the top and bottom turrets and sealing up the waste gun positions surely would be helpful and increase the aircraft's speed.
Plus - and more importantly - less crew means less people dying if the plane gets shot down.
☮

[garygenerous]

I just gotta say thank you for providing this information. I have loved the B-17 ever since I got the Microprose game as a six year old so I’ve done a fair amount of digging. But saying that I have learned something from each of your videos and I know that if I were to show them to someone who hasn’t done the digging I have they would learn a ton about the best plane ever made.

[chrisspalding]

I find your channel remarkably interesting. My late Father was child during WW2 in Suffolk where there were several aerodromes that were used by the 8th Air Force. One was Gt Ashfield home of the 385th Bomb Group known as Van's Valiants. As a child he could vividly remember the great formations flying off early in the morning and watching them come back in the afternoon in loose formation, Civilians in the UK who lived near the aerodromes never knew fully what really went on there but there are many memorials in East Anglian Churchyards to the 'Yanks' as the locals called them. So, their sacrifices will always be remembered. I have visited the American Cemetery at Madingley near Cambridge and it is very sobering to read the names of these young men who came from over the 'pond' to fight and give us the freedom we have today.

[askrisk]

In the 1960s the Memphis Belle was sitting derelict at the Memphis Army Depot. I used to play in her. She was striped and covered in bird crap. I have seen her new look and am happy she is still a monument to appreciate

[rocketshipevan]

I have a purple heart that was given to my grandfather for the death of his brother. If I remember correctly he went down over the Baltic returning from a bombing run. Everyone bailed out ok, but they then froze in the icy waters. They were in a B-17. I dont remember Bombers flying over the Baltic, but thats what I was told.

[oriolesfan]

As always, your presentation is informative and credible

[harryspeakup]

Very good to see some proper analysis of these facts

[retarmy]

pity that the data for crew losses isn't readily available for the ETO. Frostbite was commonly cited as being a major issue, this in addition to those WIA, KIA, POW from bombers that were lost or returned damaged. Another was what we call today as PTSD and was a very real issue.