The REAL Difference Between Traditional Martial Arts and Combat Sports

How elements of organizational culture determine the effectiveness of martial arts on both a collective and individual level.
If that description doesn't get your nerd senses tingling, then I don't know what will.

0:00 Better Terminology
3:48 How It Relates to Martial Arts
5:55 Why It's Important
7:20 Other Applications
9:54 Conclusion

(Metrolina MA does not necessarily endorse any views expressed in this video.)

[ArmchairViolence]

Point of Clarification (that I should have put in the video):
Virtually every art is going to have SOME process elements and SOME results to look at. The difference in categories is in whether process or results is more important. I.E. Is throwing out the process to get better results a good or bad thing?
Should you go off script in a sales call, in order to close the sale? Yes! Therefore, (most) sales is results-oriented.
Should you use non-approved parts in order to repair an aircraft in a more timely manner? NO!!! Therefore, aircraft maintenance is process-oriented.

Combat sports have processes, but those processes only exist to get better results. If something else can get you better results, you are free to throw the process out the window, and you get congratulated for innovating (or at least you should).
In other martial arts, they make you do the move in a specific way irrespective of whether it seems to be working. I promise you that those classes exist. I've taken them.

If you can discard the process in favor of results, it's results-oriented. If you can never, EVER discard the process, then it's process-oriented. Every martial art will have elements of each, but it will almost always definitively fall into one category or the other.

[nyhttrane]

Wow this young man gives me hope for the future. He’s absolutely right; as a coach what I’ve seen even in combat sports a fighter’s style never looks like what you’ve shown them ten minutes ago. What he is describing is the difference between coaching and teaching. I teach children and new students and I coach the guys with no neck that moves as fast as Olympic sprinters because you can’t teach Beast Mode 😂 great video brother

[dukemosby]

A note on the crossover between process and results based learning.

My jiu jitsu coach teaches largely with positional sparring. For example, you'll be put in half guard, and be given a goal. "Pass" for the competitor on top, and "Sweep or submit" to the competitor on bottom. Once you've shown someone a few options to pass guard, they'll try them all, and learn all the permutations of what works in what scenario. This is called "environmental learning." You learn from information provided by your environment, rather than trying to repeat what a coach shows you.

Trying to copy a 9 step triangle choke is hard. It also falls apart the moment your opponent resists, because they interrupt you at step 2. Alternatively, you can drill trying to sweep or submit someone from your guard while they try to pass, for 5, 2 minute rounds. You learn what works for you much faster this way.

Getting every step of the triangle before they try to use it is not an effective way to learn it. Isolating the aspects of the technique entirely from all the wild, unpredictable, exhausting, intimidating variables is what Aikido does, and that is why it's so renowned for being ineffective.

[harrisonbloom]

I was training at a judo dojo in Los Angeles - a fairly old school one, taught in a relatively traditional Japanese method compared with the more “modern” approach used by the dojo in my home state. A lot of strict collar-sleeve grip action, a lot of complaining about “weird” grips and techniques used in competition, etc. And I noticed that, unlike the judo school I train at in my home state, the head instructor would try to impose his style on us a lot more. Like, if I was doing something slightly unorthodox, I would hear him shout “USE THE STANDARD GRIP!!!” From all the way across the giant gym and somehow know he was talking to me. But I noticed that he never made those comments if someone’s unique strategy actually worked. Like, if I abandoned my traditional collar sleeve grip to get an unusual grip and got a throw, he wouldn’t complain. Only if I grabbed onto my opponent with a non-standard grip and just held onto it for fifteen seconds without getting a throw at all. My interpretation was that he was a teacher who highly valued the basics and structured curriculum of traditional judo and maybe was a bit stuck in his ways, but that on some level he recognizes that results matter more than sticking to a mold. That focusing on winning ultimately trumps being a slave to the process

[cchutney]

To be fair, as a beginner, you absolutely need a process based approach. If you are the guy in your gym, you can squash everybody based on your already existing attributes.

[StealthScouts]

Av, just gotta say the teaching style of your videos is literally the BEST I've seen. As someone with ADD this really helps.
I offically award you a black belt in teaching ADD people like me

[danman]

Good explanation! 100% proper form and technique often goes out the window when you're in fight-or-flight mode, and someone is repeatedly punching you in the head or threatening to stab you. Many martial arts teach you a false sense of security, because you've never actually tested these techniques under pressure, stress or resistance. Choose a results-based approach if you're learning martial arts for self-defense and competition, and a process-based approach for recreation and fitness.

[miqvPL]

I was so lucky with my taekwondo gym, the instructor there is training kickboxing as much as tkd and he teaches us proper tkd techniques but in sparring he loves when we land uppercuts and knee strikes when the distance gets tight, praising innovation. And constantly slapping our ears for lowering the guard in mid distance.

I train both, boxing teaches me how to fight effectively with my hands while tkd makes sure my legs also get a proper workout + improved my footwork in boxing immensely. Plus boxing alone becomes a bit boring over time, to the point where 2 months of kyokushin karate and their weird ways to punch were an amazing innovation, despite being highy ineffective in sparring

[torstenscott]

This will forever be my choice in nomenclature when describing the goals of varying martial arts. I believe in being results oriented and I have no problem with varying processes, so long as they contribute to the efficient obtainment of the results. Thanks for this, it really is a great way to clarify the traditional vs mma debate.

[jomess]

I've had two BJJ coaches, one was very traditional and the other isn't. The first one corrected his son for demoing a technique differently than how Royce showed how to do it. The other shows three different variations of a triangle and says pick one or combine then shows you how he does it and explains why, then tells you to go play with it. I do triangles differently than him. He doesn't care. The first coach did care if we did something differently than the specific drill. He didn't like talking or for students to discuss the technique. You were to learn from him or approved people, and that depended on the day. The other couch (which is my current one is) has no problem with students discussing things, and helping each other. He encourages it. I've gotten in trouble at 2 different schools (which led to me getting kicked out) for going off script. Students would ask me questions and I'd answer and it wasn't always the "approved" answer. I started at his school and again, lower ranked students started asking me questions. Being gun shy, I went to talk to him about it. He said, you've been doing martial arts for almost 10 years and BJJ for almost 4 if you can't answer a white belts question than I've failed as an instructor and if you say something wrong I will correct it. If you're tapping people, he's happy.

[SwordAndWaistcoat]

This video was super useful in explaining so many things that I've been mulling over with HEMA for a while. Like there's even a move in HEMA make it more process orientated when traditionally it's been more goal orientated (the goals being sword well and work out what the manuals are saying).

Also it helps explain why things like krav maga seem more like traditional martial arts than anything else.

[magicman]

I wonder if this idea of focusing on process could have it's roots in preparing for warfare. We think of martial arts as being individualistic in either fighting for self-defense or competition, but there is a context under which you need to operate as part of a larger organization

[georgemcelroyII]

Right on the money again! You cleared the misunderstanding between martial arts & combat sports/self-defence with a straightforward analogy!
Since the 80's there has been this mistaken belief that martial arts are a way of self-defence until MMA became more & more mainstream when became clear that martial arts are exactly that, an art, another way of expression!
Self-defense has to be simple & effective.

[OneNvrKnoz]

One of your best videos yet. Less of a rant and more of a well thought out and reasoned lecture. Thank you!

[imjustsam]

I comment on your videos because I think you're doing really helpful work and I hear tell commenting helps your videos get seen more. Thanks man, already looking forward to the next one.

[sixstringrevolver]

Brilliantly insightful and well articulated, as always. Thanks for another great video!

[martialgeeks]

Great video, as someone who trains mma and japanese ju jistu, I've said before that if you have a goal of simply winning fights, go to combat sports, but If you're interested in history of techniques from a specific art and culture then have fun exploring the tradition, just be honest with your goals

[jovil]

Hey thank you for all the effort put into delivering such amazing videos

[lawrencewelshman]

Love this. A major part of my day job is business process & systems analysis. You just fired up some serious synapses LOL I will probably see combat/martial arts training through this lense from now on.
~Moonlight Martial Artist😉

[harrisonbloom]

Holy shit, YES. This is such a great exploration of this topic

Every time I see one of your little think pieces I’m blown away by how well you’re able to express these concepts. Seriously, just keep up the good work man 👏