Islam and Futurism in Dune: A Discussion with Haris Durrani

On Wednesday, August 17th 2022, the Abbasi Program hosted Haris Durrani to discuss themes of Islamic Futurism in Herbert's Dune as part of the SGS Summer Film Festival, “Common Worlds, Limitless Realities: Futurism and Fantasy in Global Cinema.”

Dune Part One is the 6-time Academy Award winning, 2021 American epic science fiction film directed by Denis Villeneuve, it is the first of a two-part adaptation of the 1965 epic novel by Frank Herbert. Punctuated by obvious Middle Eastern and Islamic themes/names/setting, Dune is set in the distant future in the year 20,000, the film follows the story of the Fremen, and Paul Atreides, a messianic like figure, who is thrust into a war for the deadly and inhospitable desert planet Arrakis.

Discussant:

[RunningRonnie]

As a non-muslim Dune Fan, I really enjoyed your discussion. As much as I loved Villeneuve's movies, I agree that the islamic influences of the novel were seriously toned down and I personally would have loved to see more of them in the movies, as the Fremen culture was one of the most intresting and interconnected theme of the books.
I don't know whether anyone ever put together, how Frank Herbert learned so much about Islam (and all the other themes he combines in his works), but from what I've read, he spend multiple years researching for the Dune-Saga (which in the 60es without the internet was surely a hell lot of work). He also worked as a Journalist and a Reporter for multiple different news outlets since his youth, so I guess, he picked up a lot of knowledge just by the nature of his work. There is a very common theory that Dune is Herbert's spiced-up version of "Lawrence of Arabia", and you certainly can see similarities between both stories.

The mix-up of cultures in the movies is also a big part in the novels. As the Dune-Saga takes place somewhat 10.000 to 20.000 years in the future, the cultures we know from Earth have been mixing and mingling, while Earth itself was only partially remembered, therefore the mixture of different cultural aspects for the characters and fractions makes the universe of Dune feel like a very distant future, but still somewhat reminiscent of our own world.

Ultimately, I believe one of the greatest strengths of Dune is, that the novel can be read in so many different kinds of ways, as you guys alluded to in the podcast, and therefore, can serve as a great fuel for discussion.

[kevinjenkins]

I read this for the first time in 1991. And I have thought all of this so many times. I think about Dune about as much as I think about Rome

[AyebaOwl]

With the second movie out, you should definitely invite this guest back

[omgsniffles]

Thank you for your thoughtful conservation! I appreciated hearing from Muslim speakers and Dune enthusiasts.

[UlmoLOTR]

For a man who read the books and seems so passionate about them, and has knowledge from such prestigious universities, mister Durrani surprises us by omitting the fact that Pauls' war was not only an internal one, but a real war that was waged by his forces after he took control, with dire consequences: 61 billion dead, 90 planets sterilized, the demoralization of 500 worlds and the wiping out of 40 religions along with their followers.

[cyclofeedubox]

The Harkonnen in the novel are supposedly descended from Finnish and Scandinavian people - you can see, especially in the second movie, how they represent the dark nature of imperialism but also clearly represent the “German” or Germany of the late 30’s with some of the excesses and hedonism of Ancient Rome thrown in.
The atredis (whilst supposedly of Greek origin) clearly engage the western audience (who view themselves as the successors of both Greek and Roman culture/democracy). It always helps when the audience you’re writing for feel some sort of attachment with the characters. Whilst we live in a different world from middle America circa 1965, we can’t take any of this out of context. In Herbert’s own words, deserts are the places in which the major religions began - Jesus in the desert, Noah and Abraham too, as well as the prophet also. Its very nature breeds mystery and mystics ways (in the unfamiliar western mind especially).
One could argue Paul is basically Lawrence of Arabia (who himself had visions of grandeur) in that sense, the harkonnen represent the axis powers, controlling Arabia like the ottomans did in line with Germany (though either an ignorant understanding of Ottoman Empire or exaggerated for the novel etc) whereas Atreides represents western powers - still colonial, still there to extract resources, but in a less brutal manner (again, Herbert might be bias in this, especially at the time, which is understandable). Therefore Paul is more clearly a Lawrence of Arabia type character- goes native so to speak

[maxungar]

when it comes to touching on islamic themes in the films, it's a political minefield. the dune novel series is difficult enough to understand by itself; it's deeply nuanced, and popular discourse is anything but nuanced. given that it's a blockbuster film franchise, it's way safer to avoid that subject matter whenever possible. i can imagine a concern that potential controversy might overshadow other elements of the film that the production team consider more relevant to the story they want to tell. of course, it's unfortunate, but adapting to the big screen necessitates significant alterations, especially with this IP.

[richlisola]

That she couldn’t say Denis Villeneuve’s name right put me off.

[JumpingJesus]

I'm just spitballing here, but the 21st century has brought us two great film series based on novels that were understood to be unfilmable, Dune and Lord of the Rings. I've been asking myself what is the next rare fruit, the next unfilmable book to be made into a money. My contenders are anything by Ursula Kroeber LeGuin, and The Lord of Light by Roger Zelasny.
The latter book could be called Hindu Futurism. .A colony far in Earth's future has modeled itself after Hindu's 10, 000 Gods. The most powerful are called The Lord's Of Karma, ; they control the reincarnation machinery and so they decide who reincarnates as what and who doesn't reincarnate at all. And so there's a war to rest the machines of karma away from the Lords. The protagonist is a Lord of Karma, Mahasamatman, who feeling compassion for the poor people who are at the whims of the mighty Lords, and renounces his divinity by removing the words Maha and Atman from his name, leaving the name Sam.

Like Dune and LOTR, The Lord of Light was attempted to be made a movie, with the visionary comic book artist Jack Kirby providing inspirational artwork, now available in black light posters. The film never got made. But bizarrely, the artwork itself was successfully used in a CIA exfiltration plot to remove 6 US Embassy workers from Teheran in the midst of the Iranian hostage crisis of 1980. This effort was depicted in the Oscar-winning film Argo. I would finally like to see the Lord of Light to get the film treatment it deserves.

[pruiz]

Yeah because I really don't think Islam or any religion for that matter would ever incorporate women like the freman do