Fixing the Games Industry With Jonathan Blow | Sacred Symbols+, Episode 368

Please welcome esteemed game designer, director, and programmer Jonathan Blow to the show. In a wide-ranging two-hour interview, Jonathan and I (Colin) dissect a Tweet he sent out back in January, one that touched on many problems plaguing our industry. (Indeed, it's that Tweet that had me reach out to him to begin with.) In a sometimes-political and always-insightful commentary, Blow fields questions on myriad topics. How are modern games competing for our time? Do some people conflate "gatekeeping" with "having standards"? Why are corporations so averse to merit-based hiring? Has a level of nihilism and disillusionment infected the rank-and-file pool of developers? Does our industry sit disconnected from the vaster realities of the economy? This is a deep chat that hits all of that, plus much more. Enjoy.

[DeanCutsforth]

I truly and sincerely appreciate both you guys *not* editing out the periods of silence while Jonathan collates his thoughts, and Colin allowing him to do so in the first place. I notice so many hosts be utterly terrified of "dead air".

This feels like an actual conversation, which is what I value when these types of personalities get together.

[_Meatball_]

Colin, I absolutely love when you interview interesting people from within the industry. One of the many reasons LSM is S tier content!

[honest-p]

My respect for Jonathan has reached new heights with this podcast.
His insightful perspective on politics and the gaming industry is always engaging and informative.
Thanks for your great podcast.

[stuckintheinbetween]

Love Jonathan Blow. I'm always happy when there's someone out there who's outspoken but not just saying crazy things to get attention. What Jonathan says is very rational. Take meritocracy, for example. Why is it obvious in sports but not as obvious in other career fields? Equally problematic to me is that we've dumbed down education. Whether it's English (reading, writing), math, science, etc., we have schools not properly teaching their students and holding themselves and their students accountable. We're raising a generation of children ill-equipped to succeed in a meritocracy-based system. Teachers are failing their students and parents are failing their children.

[Eliterubberduck]

Really appreciated this conversation. I remember back in 2020, Jonathan Blow had come out saying he was not going to go to any conferences to give speeches if they disinvite people over cancel culture. I believe it was in part generated by a conference disinvitation of Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob) for saying "Defunding the police is a terrible policy...", which is now the mainstream opinion across both political parties. The usual suspects lit Jonathan up for daring to speak up but he didn't seem deterred. I gained a lot of respect for him because of that. I'm glad to see he's still willing to say what he thinks, it makes for a very interesting conversation and honestly gives me hope that maybe more people will start doing the same. If not, at least this conversation brought some fleeting levity. Good work Colin!

[DJTSYes]

Jonathon Blow is my digital spirit animal. Whenever I think about him, he inspires me to be smarter.

[LifeOfToyz]

As someone that works in software development in the government contracting sector, I loved this inside baseball discussion of the game development industry.
Jonathan says the things I've been thinking for some time, but have been waiting to hear others say out loud.

[AwkwrdlyAnmated]

I fully expected to click off a few minutes in but I actually was really captivated by this conversation. Jonnathan was an awesome guest and had some great insight.

[remakeyourself]

Colin is the absolute master of shutting the fuck up. For someone who has so many insights and genuine opinions, he shuts up better than anyone else in the industry.

[philbertius]

Jonathan is expressing so many of my innermost thoughts on the business world, I feel so much less alone now. Thanks for this amazing conversation!

[shingetsu]

Braid and The Witness to this day remain two of the most fascinating and intellegent games I've ever played. From the awe-inspiring ah-ha puzzles to the ingenious delivery of story-telling, this man is one of pure talent, and I cannot recommend enough for people to go check out his works

[jbow]

I never knew much about Jonathan as a person apart from the “internet” seeming to agree that he was a grumpy asshole/old man screaming at the sky. This podcast has thoroughly dissuaded me of that impression. Great show.

[jzilla]

Biggest household expense is rent. This rent Inflation was driven by a loss in housing stock to large private investment companies buying up all the properties. Creating a scarcity

[MrCristoflanga]

I agree so much with what Jonathan says starting at 19:00. As someone who reads literary novels and comic books, plays modern board games, watches tons of movies, etc., most videogames don't seem innovative or exciting enough to me. I think board games is actually where the most daring designers are at right now. You play something like John Company 2, with all its complex inter-player dynamics, and it makes most videogames seem very conservative in their understanding of what a game can be.

[HEARD]

I love everything about LSM but this is my favorite type of content on the channel. So good!

[mercurymachines]

I’ve been looking forward to this episode for a long time, it should be a great conversation.

[jorr]

Another awesome episode and conversation! Though I didn't agree with Jonathan on everything he makes some excellent points and I loved his transparency. Consider me a full-blown Jonathan Blow fan.

[desertgsrider]

I'm laughing because Jonathan keeps saying "This may upset people" before being honest and having an informed opinion. It's LSM, where differing opinions are very welcome! Plus, Jaffe gets most of the unwarranted "upset" people targeting! Loved this interview!!

[Sightaker]

The fact that Jonathan's bracing for blow back before he says things and still saying what needs to be said honestly is a sign of a man of courage

[MrBrownie]

Love the interview series with Colin. My favourite plus episodes!! 🎉