Intelligent Thinking About Artificial Intelligence

Renowned computer scientist and virtual reality pioneer Jaron Lanier joins Brian Greene to explore revolutionary proposals for understanding, leveraging, and safeguarding AI.

The Big Ideas Series is supported in part by the John Templeton Foundation.

Participant: Jaron Lanier
Moderator: Brian Greene

00:00 - Jaron Lanier Introduction
05:50 - The beginning of AI and Alan Turing's role
14:18 - Is Chat GPT a vital moment in history?
19:47 - Deep learning and how it works
27:30 - Large Language Models vs the human brain
33:14 - Will Chat GPT make doing bad things easier?
40:40 - The systemic challenges of controlling AI
46:50 - Is there utility in AI for creating music?
50:45 - Apple Vision Pro and the history of VR
57:08 - Propmt base world creation
01:00:26 - AI art

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[richardnorris]

Whenever I listen to or read Jaron Lanier, I always think of the quote "In every work of genius we recognise our own rejected thoughts: they come back to us with a certain alienated majesty." He articulates the thoughts I wish I could articulate. He's my hero.

[waakdfms]

Jaron is one of my all time favorite human beings....I could listen to him endlessly. He's truly one of a kind. Thank you so much for this conversation....yes, yes, please have Part 2-!!

[LauraLouLou]

What a diametric contrast to the conversation with Eric Schmidt! Mr. Lanier has an understanding of empathy and altruism! Fabulous discussion!

[djannias]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:

01:27 🎙️ *Introduction to the conversation on AI, AR, VR, and related topics*
- Introduction of Jaron Lanier, his background, and credentials,
- Brief discussion on the host's past interaction with Jaron Lanier.
03:06 🎶 *Jaron Lanier's fascination with musical instruments*
- Jaron Lanier's childhood connection to music through his mother, a Holocaust survivor,
- The significance of music as a continuing connection to his mother,
- Jaron's extensive collection and passion for learning various musical instruments.
05:16 🎵 *Collaboration in music with Philip Glass and insights into their relationship*
- Jaron Lanier's collaboration with Philip Glass in music production,
- Reflections on the collaboration and the significance of their work together.
06:12 🔬 *Historical figures in artificial intelligence and their contributions*
- Overview of historical figures in AI, including Ada Lovelace, E.M. Forster, Alan Turing, and Norbert Wiener,
- Discussion on their contributions and perspectives on artificial intelligence.
15:03 🤖 *Evolution of the term "artificial intelligence" and the influence of Norbert Wiener*
- The meeting at Dartmouth in 1958 where the term "artificial intelligence" was coined,
- Norbert Wiener's influence and his concept of cybernetics,
- Reflections on Wiener's concerns about the societal implications of treating people like computers.
16:10 🌐 *Impact of recent developments in AI, like ChatGPT, and its interpretation*
- Reflections on recent developments in AI, such as ChatGPT,
- Perspective on large language models as collaborations between individuals rather than entities,
- Discussion on the role and perception of AI in society and its practical applications.
19:31 🧠 *Understanding the inner workings of large language models*
- Overview of how large language models work, using the example of identifying cats and dogs,
- Introduction to deep learning and its role in complex pattern recognition tasks,
- Preview of a forthcoming explanation of the inner workings of large language models.
21:31 🧠 *Training artificial intelligence models using gradient descent.*
- Training involves providing known data (e.g., images of cats and dogs) and adjusting weights based on value.
- Gradient descent is employed to gradually refine the model's performance by adjusting the weights.
- The process involves assigning higher value to successful outputs and reducing value for less successful ones.
22:40 📚 *Utilizing adjacency in training large language models.*
- Training involves analyzing the entire internet, assuming adjacency between words and images is meaningful.
- Adjacency helps in tagging and training the model on a wide range of data.
- Training requires significant computational resources and time, with each cycle taking about a year.
24:13 🖼️ *Generating images using generative AI models and blending techniques.*
- Generative AI models combine random pixels and adjust them based on multiple prompts and constraints.
- Blending multiple prompts allows for the creation of complex and unique outputs.
- The model iteratively refines the output until it satisfies all given prompts and constraints.
26:28 🤔 *Comparing artificial intelligence pattern recognition with human intelligence.*
- Artificial intelligence systems recognize patterns of patterns of patterns to generate outputs.
- Differences exist between AI pattern recognition and human intelligence, including learning efficiency and training methodologies.
- Understanding the distinctions aids in assessing AI capabilities and limitations.
29:40 🤖 *Integrating symbolic AI and statistical AI approaches.*
- Efforts to combine symbolic AI (model-based) and statistical AI (data-driven) approaches are ongoing.
- Combining these approaches has shown promising results in specific applications, such as geometry problem-solving.
- Challenges remain in generalizing these hybrid approaches across various domains.
32:13 ⚠️ *Addressing concerns and responsibilities regarding AI development.*
- The focus should be on human responsibility in utilizing AI technologies to mitigate potential risks.
- Guardrails and ethical considerations are crucial to prevent misuse of AI systems.
- Emphasizing human responsibility over dystopian narratives fosters a more constructive approach to AI development.
40:59 🤖 *Challenges of AI Implementation in Society*
- Discussion on the performance of AI systems and the underlying factors influencing their effectiveness.
- Concerns about the potential societal impact of AI advancements, including job displacement.
- Critique of the universal basic income solution and the potential for abuse by malicious actors.
41:56 🏭 *Alternative Economic Models for AI Integration*
- Proposal for a model where individuals contributing to AI development are compensated through royalties or dividends.
- Advocacy for maintaining economic structures while incorporating AI advancements.
- Discussion on the potential challenges and benefits of implementing such a model.
44:14 🔬 *Applying Gradient Descent Concepts to Societal Systems*
- Analogizing the need to prevent virality in AI training with societal systems.
- Emphasizing the importance of avoiding dominance by any one component in societal dynamics.
- Reflecting on the potential benefits of applying these principles to create a healthier societal framework.
46:03 💡 *Impact of AI on Business Models and Advertising*
- Speculation on how AI advancements may prompt shifts in business models, particularly in advertising.
- Discussion on the potential transformation of advertising into paid influence channels rather than traditional models.
- Consideration of AI-driven alternatives to traditional advertising methods.
49:05 🎶 *Integrating AI with Music and Instrumental Expression*
- Exploration of the role of musical instruments as advanced user interfaces.
- Advocacy for making computers more expressive and akin to musical instruments.
- Reflections on the potential for computers to learn from the sophistication of traditional instruments.
51:36 🚀 *Evolution of Virtual Reality (VR) Technology*
- Historical perspective on the development of VR technology, tracing back to early experiments in the 1990s.
- Discussion on the challenges of maintaining VR applications over time due to technological advancements.
- Proposal for using generative AI to address the maintenance challenges and enable spontaneous world creation in VR environments.
00:59:55 🌌 *VR's Impact on Understanding Philosophical Conundra*
- VR shapes understanding of key philosophical ideas and issues,
- Experiencing virtual worlds sheds new light on old problems.
01:00:24 🛠️ *VR's Utility and Artistic Expression*
- VR demonstrates extreme utility in industrial applications like design and training,
- It fosters a separate ecosystem for artistic expression and interpretation,
- Artistic VR experiences offer subjective interpretations based on pre-existing philosophies.
01:02:13 🎨 *Exploring Consciousness and Dualism in VR*
- VR experiences can evoke philosophical discussions about consciousness and dualism,
- The perception of virtual reality is influenced by the individual's pre-existing philosophy,
- VR can serve as a tool to explore consciousness and different philosophical perspectives.
01:04:22 🤔 *Philosophical Impact of Virtual Reality*
- Virtual reality experiences can lead to philosophical shifts and discussions,
- Immersive VR scenarios enable individuals to empathize with different perspectives,
- Philosophical exploration in VR offers unique opportunities for understanding consciousness and subjective experiences.

Made with HARPA AI

[mehridin]

nice, smart guy with common sense. his memory and way of remembering his mother was sweet and sad at the same time.

[ianshepherd]

This is one of the most fascinating interviews I have ever watched. What an extraordinary, perceptive man. Thanks Brian...please, please interview him again! ❤

[k.c.simonsen]

I've looked up so many fuckin videos about Tech CEO's and smart people talking about AI and so far Jaron is the only guy I really trust. I like that Sam guy too but most people guard their responses for fear of hurting the stock of their company but Jaron seems very honest and I love his fashion sense.

[cometssale]

25:00~ "It constructs a virtual tower for the combination in order to be the feedback to generate this new image..." Kant's reflecting judgment--very impressive. It's what we call aesthetic imagination.

[Yoder]

Dr. Greene is an inspiration to many and especially myself. I have watched him for years and I'm so blessed to be a part of this generation in scientific discovery. It makes me want to go back to school! At 33, it baffles me!

[Brian-nthh]

Jaron’s Gadgets book is a must read. Bringing some clarity to the laymen about AI fears is a must. Perceiving it through fearmongers accomplishes little but power to those that profess it. Thx Brian & guest

[MYNAME_ABC]

Must reads by Greene: 1. Fabric of the cosmos, 2. Hidden reality, 3. Until the end of time 👍

[trevorsimpson]

Both Jaron and Dr Green show the best type of scientist - those with a love of their subject and complete humility. A fascinating conversation and can't wait for the one on consciousness!

[katerynahorytsvit]

Kudos to Jaron Lanier for his courage in publicly embracing dualism, a philosophical stance often overlooked or dismissed in today's technological discourse.

[catalin.s]

This is one of the most fascinating interviews I have ever watched. What an extraordinary, perceptive man. Thanks Brian...please, please interview him again!

[S.G.Wallner]

The Machine Stops is absolutely wild. Must read!

[Jsurf]

Brian Greene in English and Etienne Klein in French. These are the two scientists whom I feel have nailed the art of talking about complex scientific and philosophical subjects to the general public.

[briannorth]

I absolutely LOVE Jaron! What a delightful human being. He embodies authenticity; I'm completely smitten with his personality! ☺️

[mandeepsingh-fdmh]

I have watched pretty much everything on this channel I am so addicted to this channel that i just put in on everytime sometimes I sleep listening to general theory of relativity and wake up to quantum entanglement discussions.

[macronomicus]

Its always a pleasure to hear Jaron speak, he's incredibly thoughtful & insightful, a splendid mind & talent.

[Strongmorals]

Dr greene I adore you today!! I do believe the Jaron is a bit too idealistic and is disregarding the interest of the corporate world, and the manipulation and security risk of what this will manifest. Anyways Brian 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 massive applause, and Jaron thank you for sharing your sincerest perspective