Out of China How the Chinese Ended the Era of Western Domination - Jaipur Literature Festival

Robert Bickers in conversation with Rana Mitter

Academic and writer Robert Bickers’s latest work, Out of China: How the Chinese Ended the Era of Western Domination, masterfully depicts China’s 20th-century interactions with the outside world, thus unravelling the complex nature of their developing idea of Nationalism vis-à-vis their painful encounter with western imperialism. Interweaving political and cultural history, Bickers intricately lays bare China’s internationalised landscapes with all its contradictions, violence, cosmopolitanism, and ambitions. In conversation with academic and writer Rana Mitter, Bicker discusses the nuances of these narratives that form China’s outlook of itself and the world at large.
Robert Bickers is a historian of modern China and its relationship with the West. He grew up on Royal Air Force bases, studied in London, and has worked at the University of Bristol since 1997. He is currently a Professor of History at the University of Bristol and has authored six books, including China Bound: John Swire & Sons and Its World, Out of China: How the Chinese Ended the Era of Western Domination and Britain in China.
Rana Mitter is a Professor of the History and Politics of Modern China at the University of Oxford. His books include China’s War with Japan: The Struggle for Survival, 1937-1945 (Penguin, 2013), and China’s Good War: How World War II is Shaping a New Nationalism (Harvard, 2020).

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[minn.]

As a Chinese from Hong Kong, I‘m so proud that Hong Kong has returned to the mainland after 150 years of British colonial history.

[Capt-tnbe]

A very interesting and factual talk show on the modern history of China. However I would like to raise two points which I think have been unfairly portrayed unintentionally.
Yes, China went through a horrible famine during the cultural revolution but it wasn't as if the communist party planned it on purpose. When we look at this very unfortunate event, we should consider the longer historical context. Firstly as you mentioned, China was colonised by a number of countries. Besides that, she went through two horrific Opium Wars with the British. While still being colonised by the various countries, the Chinese fought the Japanese in the 2nd World War from 1937 to 1945. Yes, China's WW2 started in 1937 not 1939 like it did in Europe. Again China suffered horrific loses to the very superiorly armed Japanese military. It is said that China suffered loses of around 30 million dead. As if that is not enough, the civil war then broke out after WW2 and that lasted until 1949 when the Communist then took power. Shortly after that, in 1951 the Chinese fought the Americans and her ally forces in the Korean war for another 2 to 3 years. If I may add, it was against a much more superior armed army. So after many years of turmoil and repression from foreign forces, Chairman Mao was desperate to industrialise China and ordered the work force towards that but unfortunately it failed miserably. Consequently, food supply suffered and China went through a period of famine.
On the subject of the recent mass protest in Hong Kong, it is a well known fact that it was a colour revolution backed and instigated by the US. One could say that the Central Government gave too much autonomy to the HK Government so much so that they failed in their duties as leaders. What the HK Government should have done was to pass the National security Law soon after the 1997 handover.
Without a National Security Law, a country is wide open to sedition in which HK came under. Fortunately for China, their attempt to break China completely failed and now with the National Security Law is in place, the window to try again has closed. Which country in the world in its right mind does not have a National Security Law to protect its sovereignty?

[dougspray]

When I was in China the guides etc admitted that Mao had made mistakes but his successes in education ( reducing illiteracy almost completely ); creating a basic health system and so increasing longevity from early forties when he took over to over seventy years when he died in 1976, his improvements in sanitation, etc gave him a 70% success rate and 30% failure rate. When China took on Capitalism there was this vast educated work force to help make it succeed so amazingly well. If one was fare minded I think the British in India success rate would be some thing like 20% success 80% failure. The American success rate in the
Middle East and Asia would surely be similar to the British rate in India.

[banshong]

So India, what are you waiting for? Isn't it time that India get rid of its colonial slave mentality and Stand Up and take its place in the world? After all before the start of the colonial era, India and China were both the two largest world economies. History has shown that India can do it and get out of the thumbs of the West. All they have to do is get rid of the colonial mentality

[vinodkumar-xrjm]

CHINA is a very great country, with intelligent & hardworking people.
One must appreciate CHINA'S Leaders, the backbone of country's development.
CHINA in all way dominated the World.Not a single country on earth that don't import from CHINA.
Very delighted that an asian Country stopped Western & Europe's monopoly. ❤️❤️❤️🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳🙏

[thecomment]

20th century's most dreadful famine was the one induced by the British policies in early 1940s Bengal region of India and another one around the year 1905.

[johndavies]

A revealing historical and contemporary account of the modern achievements of China is Written by John Ross, his book is called China’s Great Road. It covers China’s development since the Socialist Revolution.
Unfortunately these two individuals only provided an English and Indian interpretation
steeped in AngloSaxon colonial discourse with an Indian antipathy towards China.
It’s important for the World that India and China resolve their differences and moved closer while maintaining their positive influence on a peaceful World development.
The AngloSaxon warmongering is in its death throes, we really need New Roads to Peace and from War.

[davu]

From 1964 to 1973, the U.S. dropped more than two million tons of ordnance on Laos during 580, 000 bombing missions—equal to a planeload of bombs every 8 minutes, 24-hours a day, for 9 years – making Laos the most heavily bombed country per capita in history. The bombings were part of the U.S. Secret War in Laos to support the Royal Lao Government against the Pathet Lao and to interdict traffic along the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
The bombings destroyed many villages and displaced hundreds of thousands of Lao civilians during the nine-year period.

Five years ago, the US forces, using the fake intelligence of a staged video by “White Helmets” as evidence, conducted the so-called “most precise air strikes in history” in Syria, killing more than 1, 600 innocent civilians. In recent years, the international community has been calling for investigations into the killing of civilians in the US’ overseas military operations. On Syria alone, the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic pointed out several times in its reports in September 2019 and February 2021 that the US failed to distinguish military targets from civilians in its air strikes in Syria, which gravely violates international humanitarian law and may constitute war crimes.
However, the US government has been turning a deaf ear to all this. 

According to reports, over the past nearly two decades, the US conducted over 90, 000 air strikes in countries including Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, which may have killed up to 48, 000 civilians. But the US military time and again covered up the facts and refused to apologize, admit its crimes or hold the perpetrators accountable. It did everything possible to evade its responsibilities. On the drone strike of civilians in Afghanistan, a Pentagon spokesperson said openly in December 2021 that no US soldiers will face disciplinary action over it.

The US media also disclosed at the end of last year that from 2014 to 2019, the US military turned its guns on farmers in the middle of harvest, children playing in the streets, families fleeing the fighting and villagers taking shelter in buildings. These disastrous crimes were deliberately concealed and whitewashed. US media revealed last year that according to the US military’s own confidential assessments of more than 1, 300 reports of civilian casualties, civilian casualties in US air strikes have been “significantly undercounted”.
Larry Lewis, a Director at the Center for Naval Analyses (CNA) of the US said that on average at least one incident of civilian harm has happened every week since 9/11. There has been an overall pattern of negligence with regard to the US government on the issue of civilian harm.

The US has also obstructed the International Criminal Court’s investigations into its war crimes in Afghanistan.  Every human life, regardless of nationality, race, religion or values, is equal and precious. The US should earnestly respond to the strong call of the international community, conduct a credible, independent and impartial investigation into civilian casualties caused by US air strikes, and hold the people concerned accountable.

The truth of the matter is that politicians in the West and the US including Australia (Australia which is psychologically totally confused and suffering from an identity crisis as it thinks it is "west" when the reality is that it is geographically part of Asia!!!), are still stuck in their mental capacity and attitude in the glory days of "empire" 5-6 centuries ago. They may have learned to wear Gucci suits nowadays but nothing else seem to have evolved in their psyche and consciousness from their barbarian days.
Instead of recognising their sordid past and history, they celebrate their delusions like "Thanksgiving Day" which the Native American Indians rightly and clearly remember and commemorate as their "Day of Mourning" being the beginning of the murdering, genociding, plundering, stealing, raping and ultimately, OCCUPATION, of their land uninvited, without any due compensation even till today. But these thieves and robbers take a lot of pride in the stories they tell themselves and sell to the world how great their "founding" was!!! Same stories with the "Empire" where the sun never sets. Australia with the Aborigines. New Zealand with their Maoris. The African continent with all those goes on and on. This is the 21st Century, for chrissakes! Grow up and come out of that sick and primitive mentality of never ending desire to dominate, control and subjugate.

The zillions of dollars spent on wars and "defence" and the other zillions being hoarded by the 1% is more than sufficient to provide every human being on the planet a very decent and never anything wanting life on this planet with the healthiest and cleanest environment. And we pride ourselves as being the only creature on earth with the intelligence, consciousness and capacity of free will and choice. And these sick politicians choose never ending squabbles, tensions and wars!!! Go figure.

[sstchan]

Western(European) definition of a nation state treats PRC as a young country. No European claims to be a former citizen of Roman Empire but Chinese would still call themselves as people of Han or Tang. They still admire historic heros of centuries past as much as their present ones. Chinese history began with the YELLOW EMPEROR 5000 thousand years ago. To know more about China one must understand its culture.

[ZZZ-zlmz]

There missed the most important part. China had been improving fast, everyday. Even during the so called 'famine years' the west casted blames on. They never want to admit China was so undeveloped and so poor after their colonization and invasion. China had accumulated largest wealth in human history by 2000 years of trading surplus. Until the west invaded and took literally all of them. Trillions of dollars of gold and silver. Plus all the treasures took away and can be found in western museums and private collections.

Even with that, Chinese living standard improved quickly. Life expectation, infant fatality rate, health conditions, educations, living stocks, infrastructure, etc. And that is why the west keeps asking why Chinese didn't defy the government, even they were so poor compare to the west. The answer is simple. Chinese are not stupid, and won't be fooled by the west propaganda. They KNOW who took there wealth and forced them in that difficult situation. And they saw their life improving, and future will always be better. They had hope, and had been working relentlessly to be better. And they had seen who the west had been trying every dirty tricks or even by force to stop their growth. They had seen hard times in their 5000 years of history. THey overcame all of them and got better. They did the same in the past 70 years. And will do the same in the future.

[jt]

US&UK want to play "color revolution" in HK, but they failed.

[JohnThomas-livi]

For my African American brothers watching this video we must except the fact that the Chinese example, model and mindset is our key to re education, resurrection and entry into the new world order out of the hells of the old outdated North America order.

[kshen]

Not only China, according to Kishore Mahbubani, it is Asia, who ended the western domination in the world.

[JianYZhong]

It seems to me that its often the British who misrepresent what the people of HK think!

[fannybirot]

He is trying to be objective, but still from a foreigner's view. These people, if they really want to understand China and Chinese people, they should talk to real Chinese.

[isuruthiwanka]

India also should stands aginst western dominance.
Whole Inida was a western colony. They should not forget that.

[MMLL]

Seldom do people know about a norm in Hong Kong regarding "self-defense", that even though the law is in place, rarely anyone could use the law to defend themselves. Meaning, if you were being attacked on the street without instigations or of the sort, your only option is RUN. Any retaliatory actions would only lead, the supposed victim, be charged the same as the offender for public nuisance.
This kind of law practice has been around for over a hundred years since the colonial era. This practice was evidently protecting the foreign barbarians who loved to beat up locals on the street at will yet, preventing the victims from retaliate out of self-defense.

[balkanleopard]

An absolutely brilliant discussion. Thank you both.

[toonpangboon]

China chose communism and the West democracy. Communism works for China thus its current economic and military strength. China keeps saying that the current China political system does not works for other country and has no intention to export. Even at the current situation, China still has tons of problem to take care of her 1.4 billion of people. And as a Chinese I can safely say that what most of the Chinese wanted is to take care of their own individual family well being ie a good shelter over the head, food on the table, good education for the children, good medical system to take care when fallen sick and lastly have good holiday as frequent as possible.

[foth]

We love China the most, very proud of China, keep strong great and good China, thumbs up China