Marxism: Zizek/Peterson: Official Video

I posted this yesterday, but the volume was too low, so now it's been raised.

On February, April 19, 2019, I debated Marxist philosopher Slavoj Zizek in Toronto, April 19 at the Sony Centre. Dr. Zizek is a Slovenian philosopher and professor at the Institute for Sociology and Philosophy at the University of Ljubljana, whose works on cultural studies, psychoanalysis and, above all, for the purposes of our debate, Marxism, are world-renowned. The topic? Happiness: Marxism vs Capitalism. This is the official video. Many bootlegs have already been released, but that seems inevitable given our current state of technological capability.

I started with a critique of The Communist Manifesto, which is the central revolutionary document of the Marxist movement (rather than addressing, say, Zizek's work, which wasn't what the debate was about).

It wasn't so obvious for the rest of the discussion that Marxism, per se, comprised the central topic of discussion.

Watch for yourself.

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[andrewsquest]

8:35 - host's speech

15:03 - Peterson's speech starts
Review on Communism Manifesto:
20:29 - on viewing history as economic class struggle
25:57 - on unclear division between social classes
28:48 - on dictatorship of the proletariat
32:12 - on why decentralized economy seems more effective
33:51 - on idea of critisizing profit
36:48 - on idea of super-productiveness of socialist society
39:32 - on notion of the manifesto, that capitalism is the most productive documented system
42:24 - breaking argument, that rich get richer and poor get poorer

46:31 - Zizek's speech starts
47:21 - on state of modern China
48:30 - on finding higher cause in life
49:57 - on the fact, that we can't appeal to traditional athority anymore
51:48 - on ideology making people do horible things
53:29 - on not making suffering instant justification of your personal philosophy
54:38 - on need for jealousy to sustain self identity (precisely, making up stories about external intruder, to justify your own failues/drawbacks/etc.)
1:00:26 - on renunciation (not letting others have something; also, Zizek claims, that modern capitalism is incorporated the wrong egalitarianism)
1:03:53 - critique of capitalism's evaluation of competency and it's hierarchical system (also, discussion of natural evolution)
1:06:58 - on unwilling of democracy to give up power to a group of competent experts
1:08:20 - on master figure, that pushes people to be free; on pain of freedom and choice; on autority as something, not tied directly to competence; on separation of expertise and political power
1:10:30 - speech about incompetency of large groups of people and inability of modern democracy and capitalism to solve global problems (e. g. ecological issues, modern apartheid, etc.)

1:19:55 - Zizek shames audience of treating debate as some kind of cheap competition

1:20:53 - Peterson's response starts
1:22:09 - on problems of capitalism
1:23:30 - on capitalism pushing everyting to economical competition (also, claim that earning more money past the certain level won't make a person happier)
1:25:33 - on possibility, that capitalism contains a fatal threat for humanity
1:28:53 - quick notions on a lot of Zizek's claims
1:30:32 - on necessity of individual responsibility in a healthy society

1:33:08 - Zizek's response starts; notion on deep subjectivity of hapiness
1:38:52 - on Comunist Manifesto
1:40:00 - on egalitatianism, global ecology problems, modern apartheid
1:42:52 - on pessimism, and unreliable human nature
1:45:36 - story about slovenian farmer (top!)

1:46:46 - Peterson's question about why Zizek, given his originality of thought, so strongly binds himself to marxism
1:49:10 - Zizek's defense of Marx
1:50:48 - claiming himself as Hegelian

1:53:22 - Peterson's and Zizek's debate on if today's radical leftists can be called marxist

2:04:47 - host's question about true human hapiness; Peterson's response about adopting responsibility and expanding your own capacities

Zizek:
2:10:00 - on authentic love as sudden catastrophy
2:11:06 - on divinity in christianity and christian God as an atheist
2:13:31 - critique of Peterson's individualist ideas

Peterson:
2:16:09 - mercifullness of idea of God as an atheist
2:18:08 - on agreement in pshychiatric society, that exposure to upleasancy deeply helps individuals
2:19:30 - defense of individualism through pessimistic picture of life
2:22:03 - on solving global soscietal problem when adressing personal one

Zizek:
2:24:57 - about ideology even in slightest things
2:27:49 - on doublethink of modern ideology

Peterson:
2:29:55 - finding deep feeling of doing things right
2:32:10 - on not lying as a way of improoving life

Zizek:
2:36:00 - on ideology of alienating yourself from reality (in order to be able to do horible things)

2:40:58 - host's question about what will people incorporate out of this debate and response from both doctors

[Porcay]

Peterson the Archetypal Dad vs Zizek the Archetypal Uncle

[JoeyHumble]

People who whoop during a philosophy discussion will be sent to the gulags.

[boalollal]

On behalf of the human race.
I'm so sorry these thinkers had to endure this audience.

[jonolas]

The conclusion is clear: We live in a society

[maxparish]

Finally something that the left and right can agree on. Worst debate audience ever.

[Greg]

The audience seems to think this was a rap battle.

[davidkurniadiweinardy]

Zizek basically telling Peterson to tell more jokes is so wholesome 😂

[FreeSpeechClub]

Welcome and rules: 7:50
Introductions: 8:30
Jordan B. Peterson's opening statement: 14:59
Slavoj Zizek's opening statement: 46:16

[confusedarmchairphilosopher]

Audience: WOOOO!!!
Zizek: please, dont turn this into a simple minded competition, we are here to debate serious issues
Audience: WOOOO!!!!

[cogithefool]

I would pay for the non-clap version of this

[effoffutube]

This is beautiful. Imagine if our "democratically elected" representatives actually had to debate their worth in this manner.

[breadman]

They should have done this as a pure conversation with no crowd

[Wilqu]

Slavoj and Jordan: Let’s talk
People: this standup is hilarious

[aisforairborne]

8:35 starts introductions
14:25 debate rules
15:10 JBP opening remarks
46:14 Zizek opening remarks
1:19:50 end of Zizek. Begin JBP reply
1:27:30 The Simon–Ehrlich wager
1:33:00 Zizek returns!
1:46:20 Speakers ask each other questions
2:04:45 Moderator asks question about happiness (both speakers say happiness is a byproduct of action, not a state of being)
2:10:20 Zizek says love is the same as happiness, a byproduct of action, not a state of being
2:41:00 Speakers state what they hope the audience got from the conversation

[danielstatler]

Towards the 2 hour mark, the debating was just so cooperative and so civil it gave me the fuzzies. Wish I could find a debate club to join but there are none

[mitchsullo]

i want a sitcom where these two live together

[xioracky]

Wow this years wrestlemania has gotten really academic.

[kainkabil]

1:19:55 - Zizek shames audience of treating debate as some kind of cheap competition and literally says dont applause
audience applauds hysterically

[Sunny-gjmh]

I watched it in its entirety. Thank you both for existing and presenting this to me. I don't worry too much about the crowd. The crowd will be the crowd. Listeners will be listeners.